(August 20, 2010 at 2:59 pm)Welsh cake Wrote:(August 19, 2010 at 4:21 pm)NoGodaloud ? Wrote: Nope, its not. Since the universe most probably had a absolute beginning, it must have had a cause.The problem here is causality and that you're arguing that god doesn't require a cause (you're a fan of Aristotle's work I take it?) which is special pleading bull-crap.
Thats quit funny. Until the Big Bang theory was not proeminent, the scientific community was postulating a eternal universe, without beginning, and without cause. Nobody then had the idea to call this special pleading. Now, suddenly , saing, God was eternal, should be ?
Quote:You arrive at the conclusion the universe requires a cause through inductive reasoning, however though causality applies from our experience on Earth via observing the known cosmos it does not necessarily apply to the universe in its entirety.
Sure. YOu beleave the Universe had the quit strange ability to create itself ? How does that make sense to you ? i thought atheists use to consider themself more reasonable thinking than theists ?
Quote:We don't know exactly how the current universe as we know it today formed; while that doesn't stop discussion it does however prevent us from asserting anything and leaves everything else open to speculation as we enter into the realm of theoretical physics; we've no concrete evidence only various theories (Big Bang) and other appealing hypothesises.
So why avoid the idea of a cause of our universe, even at the cost of reason , if this is what makes most sense to believe ?
Quote:We do know a good deal regarding the laws of thermodynamics in that matter and energy can't be created or destroyed, merely changed which would suggest they may possibly be eternal, as unfathomable as that may be to you.
Then you run into the problem of the second law of thermodynamics. But i give you a hint. The physical law got into place at creation, not beyond. At the beginning of the universe, these laws were not existing . They were created together with matter, space, and time.
Quote:You've not even glanced at string theory or other studies within cosmology and fallen headlong into the trap of making invalid causal loops and chains.
Quote:there is not much evidence for such theories. It would be far more intellectually honest for you to say "Without evidence, I don't know for certain".
The evidence of the Big Bang is not enough ?
Quote:In fact I can trump that - The Invisible Pink Unicorn dwells in a truly timeless eternal dimension that makes God look finite by comparison, for she alone is truly without beginning, and truly without a end, and therefore does not need a cause. Yeah. Go me.
the kalaam cosmological argument does not make any prediction of WHICH God might have created the universe. So to stick to a maccarroni monster with banana sauce does make perfectly sense, if you have other evidence for such being.