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Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism
#76
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism
(March 1, 2015 at 4:27 am)robvalue Wrote: Wiploc:

In my experience, in the common usage amongst atheists:

Strong atheist, and gnostic atheist are interchangeable terms for "atheist who also claims to know there are no gods".

The belief there is no God is not strong/gnostic atheism though, as this is not a claim of knowledge. Without the knowledge claim as well (making this claim redundant) this is still agnostic atheism.

Old System (most popular usage) :
A. Theists believe gods exist.
B. Atheists believe gods do not exist.
C. Agnostics (everybody else) do not believe either way.
X. Gnostics know whether gods exist.
Y. Agnostics don't know whether gods exist.

Note that "agnostics" is used as the label for two different categories.
The advantage of this system is that most people use it.


New System (most popular among self-identified atheists, 2nd most popular overall):
A. Theists believe gods exist.
B. Strong atheists believe gods do not exist.
C. Weak atheists (everybody else) do not believe either way.
X. Gnostics know whether gods exist.
Y. Agnostics don't know whether gods exist.

The advantages of this system are:
- it eliminates the ambiguous usage of "agnostic"
- is in wide use (It's number 2, and gaining so rapidly it may soon be #1).


These are the two most popular systems. Whatever's in third place is so far behind that it must be effectively a private system, needing explanation and negotiation each time it's used with a new person. Probably Dawkins' nonsense comes in third.

Both of the frontrunner systems are "normalized databases": everybody fits in a category; nobody fits in more than one category. (You are an A, B, or C. You can't be a D, because A, B, and C covered everything. And the categories are mutually exclusive, so you can't be both an A and B.)

So now you introduce a new candidate, one I have never heard of in my life. Call it Rob's nomenclature:
A. Theists believe gods exist.
B. What goes here?
C. What goes here?
X. Strong or gnostic atheists, and gnostic theists.
Y. What goes here?

What is the advantage of this system?

Maybe you can fill in the blanks for me, and explain why anyone would welcome or root for this system?
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Dystopia - February 12, 2015 at 2:31 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 2:34 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Napoléon - February 12, 2015 at 2:36 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 2:38 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by dyresand - February 12, 2015 at 2:38 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Napoléon - February 12, 2015 at 2:39 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Dystopia - February 12, 2015 at 2:46 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 2:47 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by FatAndFaithless - February 12, 2015 at 2:50 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Dystopia - February 12, 2015 at 2:51 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by FatAndFaithless - February 12, 2015 at 2:53 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Dystopia - February 12, 2015 at 2:54 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 2:53 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by FatAndFaithless - February 12, 2015 at 2:55 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 2:57 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by LastPoet - February 12, 2015 at 3:03 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 3:06 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by FatAndFaithless - February 12, 2015 at 3:10 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 3:14 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Dystopia - February 12, 2015 at 3:14 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by FatAndFaithless - February 12, 2015 at 3:21 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 3:15 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Dystopia - February 12, 2015 at 3:18 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 3:19 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Pizza - February 12, 2015 at 3:23 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by FatAndFaithless - February 12, 2015 at 3:24 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 3:25 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by FatAndFaithless - February 12, 2015 at 3:26 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 3:28 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by FatAndFaithless - February 12, 2015 at 3:30 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 3:31 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Pizza - February 12, 2015 at 3:35 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 3:36 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Pizza - February 12, 2015 at 3:44 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Pizza - February 12, 2015 at 3:49 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by FatAndFaithless - February 12, 2015 at 3:37 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 3:38 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by MysticKnight - February 12, 2015 at 3:43 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by FatAndFaithless - February 12, 2015 at 3:45 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 3:44 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 3:52 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Pizza - February 12, 2015 at 4:33 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Dystopia - February 12, 2015 at 3:54 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by FatAndFaithless - February 12, 2015 at 4:02 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by wiploc - February 26, 2015 at 9:20 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 3:57 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 4:03 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Dystopia - February 12, 2015 at 4:17 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 4:21 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Dystopia - February 12, 2015 at 4:22 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 4:23 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by LastPoet - February 12, 2015 at 4:24 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 4:25 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by LastPoet - February 12, 2015 at 4:39 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 4:36 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Pizza - February 12, 2015 at 5:03 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by FatAndFaithless - February 12, 2015 at 5:06 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 4:41 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by LastPoet - February 12, 2015 at 4:48 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 4:53 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by LastPoet - February 12, 2015 at 4:55 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 4:57 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - February 12, 2015 at 5:08 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Pizza - February 12, 2015 at 6:24 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Dystopia - February 26, 2015 at 8:38 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Whateverist - February 28, 2015 at 9:38 am
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Delysid - March 1, 2015 at 2:21 am
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Whateverist - March 1, 2015 at 3:46 am
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - March 1, 2015 at 4:27 am
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by wiploc - March 1, 2015 at 12:03 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Dystopia - March 1, 2015 at 10:03 am
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Norman Humann - March 1, 2015 at 10:09 am
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Whateverist - March 1, 2015 at 12:15 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - March 2, 2015 at 3:35 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Dystopia - March 1, 2015 at 10:16 am
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Norman Humann - March 1, 2015 at 10:35 am
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Cyberman - March 1, 2015 at 11:19 am
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Spooky - March 1, 2015 at 11:06 am
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by One Above All - March 1, 2015 at 12:06 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Delysid - March 2, 2015 at 2:29 pm
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by wiploc - March 3, 2015 at 3:04 am
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Delysid - March 3, 2015 at 4:04 am
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - March 3, 2015 at 3:16 am
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Whateverist - March 3, 2015 at 3:43 am
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - March 3, 2015 at 4:12 am
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Delysid - March 3, 2015 at 5:27 am
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - March 3, 2015 at 4:23 am
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Whateverist - March 3, 2015 at 8:07 am
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - March 3, 2015 at 8:36 am
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by Whateverist - March 3, 2015 at 11:46 am
RE: Enlightened [Elitist] Agnosticism - by robvalue - March 3, 2015 at 11:48 am

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