RE: How Muslims believed earth was spherical long before anybody mentions it.
March 11, 2015 at 4:47 am
Irrational
I wasn't discussing the circumference of earth, or the greek philosophy of viewing earth as "a coin" with ending borders ; mostly referred to as "the end of the world". It's about earth being a sphere ; a ball, is so different than assuming the obvious observation that earth is round.
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh
I never lie about my sources. Especially the Quran. I take the words from its core.
Alex K
It's not the diameter, or an attempt to "measure" earth's circumference. It's the bald claim the Quran presented that nobody ever said or believed in for a fact ; which is "Earth is a spherical shaped ball".
Saying earth is a ball, is so different from trying to measure its circumference or size. Saying earth is a ball, that contains "Heavy weights inside" is a bald claim, Alex K. That's the difference.
To support my point more :
( 25 ) Have We not made the earth a container
( 26 ) Of the living and the dead?
( 27 ) And We placed therein lofty, firmly set mountains and have given you to drink sweet water. Page 581
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh
( 1 ) When the earth is shaken with its [final] earthquake
( 2 ) And the earth discharges its Athqal (translated to burdens ; more accurately it should be translated to "weights" #check note below).
( 3 ) And man says, "What is [wrong] with it?" -
( 4 ) That Day, it will report its news
( 5 ) Because your Lord has commanded it.
#note : yet another translation error. the word " Athqal=اثقال " is used in the verse, not "Burden = اوزار". Athqal is used mainly for physically heavy stuff, while "awzar" for psychologically heavy things (i.e depression, sins...etc). So earth shall spit its physical burdens = athqal.
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh
robvalue
It means Europe erased that the Quran mentioned it first & replaced it with the story of the poor guy who got toasted by the Church for saying it?
It means history is bullshit.
Irrational
Not arbitrary, Irrational, but "accurate". The arbitrary translation is the one you find in the links. Notice how I'm translating the verse "literally" without replacing one word for another "turning yokawer to yoghshee", now that is arbitrary.
No. In Arabic there is already a word for rolling and that is "لف يلف لفاً" or go back to "كسا يكسي" or غطى يغطي. All these are used to describe what you meant : rolling something, over something else.
But, "كور يكور تكويراً" is a different word, referring to the rolling of something until it looks like a ball..see the difference ? how would you do that, if earth itself wasn't a sphere ?
Ancient arabic doesn't tolerate grammar like today's arabic.
??
http://www.universetoday.com/60174/does-the-sun-move/
Dude the sun has a course, along with the whole solar system, orbiting the center of the milky way.
Check this verse which told people about it 1400 years ago before NASA :
( 37 ) And a sign for them is the night. We remove from it [the light of] day, so they are [left] in darkness.
( 38 ) And the sun runs [on course] toward its stopping point. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing.
( 39 ) And the moon - We have determined for it phases, until it returns [appearing] like the old date stalk.
( 40 ) It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon, nor does the night overtake the day, but each, in an orbit, is swimming. Page 442.
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh
About the sun's orbit and how the quran spoke of it accurately ; that's another topic : )
Cato
When somebody else discovers something (even if he was an ali baba living in the dessert), you shut up, swallow your nerd complex, and admit that he beat you to it.
The medieval European scholars didn't do that, the churched burned any person giving credit to Muslims or even practice the way of science that god showed to humanity via the Quran. Works got stolen to be re-produced under European authors, the amount of books stolen during the crusades is alone a crime against humanity. Dante's inferno was stolen from رسائل الغفران للكاتب ابو العلاء المعري. that's just one small example.
I'm a guy who appreciates science, in my field of Computer Science, I refer to the people who taught me & discovered new things..
Not burn them alive then steal their work & re-produce it in my name & language.
Anyhow, saying earth is "a round coin" that has an end, with a hades under it (proof that nobody ever believed earth is spherical, Zues at the end of the world spraying thunder on his spoiled kids), excuse me but that is not science.
Europe had no credit in this.. this was taught to a nomad, via god. Unless you want to convince me, that the nomad had all the knowledge of greek?
I call that an inferiority complex, covered with a thick layer of superiority complex.
Minimalist
Actually not, since I'm not a nationalist or a tribal person, I do believe all humans are my family. So gay right ? I mean Minimalist, I already have tons of problems with Muslims too, you can read my topics about how Muslims destroyed their own region for gold, oil & tribalism.
We are all humans, Minimalist. The disaster is when you turn from human, to a tribal/nationalist neanderthal who hate others & exterminate them in Millions if they had better lives, then erase their history. (Cough Cough Cortez's crusade ; cough cough burning mayan libraries).
But nowadays, there is a big scientific & liberal community that cares not about Jews, Muslims or Atheists ; just appreciates talent & achievement.
MrNoMorePropaganda
Hey, saw the huge post :/ ..
I will reply to you very soon along with the rest of the guys ; consider this comment a placeholder
Quote:It is unlikely, however, that Eratosthenes got an accurate measurement of the circumference of the Earth, given three errors in the assumptions he made:[16]
That Alexandria and Syene lie on the same meridian.
That the distance between Alexandria and Syene is 5000 stades.
That the Earth is a sphere.
I wasn't discussing the circumference of earth, or the greek philosophy of viewing earth as "a coin" with ending borders ; mostly referred to as "the end of the world". It's about earth being a sphere ; a ball, is so different than assuming the obvious observation that earth is round.
Quote:Give me the link to that verse in Arabic. I don't think you've given us the reference yet. What sura and aya is it exactly?
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh
I never lie about my sources. Especially the Quran. I take the words from its core.
Alex K
It's not the diameter, or an attempt to "measure" earth's circumference. It's the bald claim the Quran presented that nobody ever said or believed in for a fact ; which is "Earth is a spherical shaped ball".
Saying earth is a ball, is so different from trying to measure its circumference or size. Saying earth is a ball, that contains "Heavy weights inside" is a bald claim, Alex K. That's the difference.
To support my point more :
( 25 ) Have We not made the earth a container
( 26 ) Of the living and the dead?
( 27 ) And We placed therein lofty, firmly set mountains and have given you to drink sweet water. Page 581
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh
( 1 ) When the earth is shaken with its [final] earthquake
( 2 ) And the earth discharges its Athqal (translated to burdens ; more accurately it should be translated to "weights" #check note below).
( 3 ) And man says, "What is [wrong] with it?" -
( 4 ) That Day, it will report its news
( 5 ) Because your Lord has commanded it.
#note : yet another translation error. the word " Athqal=اثقال " is used in the verse, not "Burden = اوزار". Athqal is used mainly for physically heavy stuff, while "awzar" for psychologically heavy things (i.e depression, sins...etc). So earth shall spit its physical burdens = athqal.
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh
robvalue
It means Europe erased that the Quran mentioned it first & replaced it with the story of the poor guy who got toasted by the Church for saying it?
It means history is bullshit.
Irrational
Not arbitrary, Irrational, but "accurate". The arbitrary translation is the one you find in the links. Notice how I'm translating the verse "literally" without replacing one word for another "turning yokawer to yoghshee", now that is arbitrary.
No. In Arabic there is already a word for rolling and that is "لف يلف لفاً" or go back to "كسا يكسي" or غطى يغطي. All these are used to describe what you meant : rolling something, over something else.
But, "كور يكور تكويراً" is a different word, referring to the rolling of something until it looks like a ball..see the difference ? how would you do that, if earth itself wasn't a sphere ?
Ancient arabic doesn't tolerate grammar like today's arabic.
Quote:And to make it worse for the OP, the same verse talks about the the sun running its course for a specified time (in the sky during the daytime, that is). Not at all scientific.
??
http://www.universetoday.com/60174/does-the-sun-move/
Dude the sun has a course, along with the whole solar system, orbiting the center of the milky way.
Check this verse which told people about it 1400 years ago before NASA :
( 37 ) And a sign for them is the night. We remove from it [the light of] day, so they are [left] in darkness.
( 38 ) And the sun runs [on course] toward its stopping point. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing.
( 39 ) And the moon - We have determined for it phases, until it returns [appearing] like the old date stalk.
( 40 ) It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon, nor does the night overtake the day, but each, in an orbit, is swimming. Page 442.
http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/index.php?l=en#a...rans=en_sh
About the sun's orbit and how the quran spoke of it accurately ; that's another topic : )
Cato
When somebody else discovers something (even if he was an ali baba living in the dessert), you shut up, swallow your nerd complex, and admit that he beat you to it.
The medieval European scholars didn't do that, the churched burned any person giving credit to Muslims or even practice the way of science that god showed to humanity via the Quran. Works got stolen to be re-produced under European authors, the amount of books stolen during the crusades is alone a crime against humanity. Dante's inferno was stolen from رسائل الغفران للكاتب ابو العلاء المعري. that's just one small example.
I'm a guy who appreciates science, in my field of Computer Science, I refer to the people who taught me & discovered new things..
Not burn them alive then steal their work & re-produce it in my name & language.
Anyhow, saying earth is "a round coin" that has an end, with a hades under it (proof that nobody ever believed earth is spherical, Zues at the end of the world spraying thunder on his spoiled kids), excuse me but that is not science.
Europe had no credit in this.. this was taught to a nomad, via god. Unless you want to convince me, that the nomad had all the knowledge of greek?
I call that an inferiority complex, covered with a thick layer of superiority complex.
Minimalist
Actually not, since I'm not a nationalist or a tribal person, I do believe all humans are my family. So gay right ? I mean Minimalist, I already have tons of problems with Muslims too, you can read my topics about how Muslims destroyed their own region for gold, oil & tribalism.
We are all humans, Minimalist. The disaster is when you turn from human, to a tribal/nationalist neanderthal who hate others & exterminate them in Millions if they had better lives, then erase their history. (Cough Cough Cortez's crusade ; cough cough burning mayan libraries).
But nowadays, there is a big scientific & liberal community that cares not about Jews, Muslims or Atheists ; just appreciates talent & achievement.
MrNoMorePropaganda
Hey, saw the huge post :/ ..
I will reply to you very soon along with the rest of the guys ; consider this comment a placeholder
