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General argument for Islam.
#72
RE: General argument for Islam.
(April 2, 2015 at 4:22 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I believe in the wisdom manifested about how God uses his exalted ones in Quran and how he treats them. I also believe exalted ones exist rationally. When I say the wisdom is in the Quran, that's not to say I believe in the wisdom due it being in Quran, but rather I believe in the Quran due the wisdom that is in it.
What if we compare the wisdom of the Quran against the wisdom of other religions and discover that the Quran is not uniquely wise?

(April 2, 2015 at 4:22 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Of course there is good people from all religions, but, we can know people of higher wisdom will follow the truth and not incline to falsehood, the best people God would honor them with exalted wisdom since it's a virtue to seek wisdom, and they would seek it being the best people.
What if we compare the saints of Islam against the saints of other religions and discover that Islam is not unique in producing saints?

Finally, what if we compare the beliefs of Islam with other religions and decide that they are contradictory? Then IMO, we shouldn't believe any of these religions.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 7:07 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 7:10 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 7:14 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 7:23 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 7:26 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 7:31 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 7:45 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 7:54 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 8:06 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 8:20 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 8:47 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 8:49 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 9:04 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeistPaladin - April 3, 2015 at 10:38 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 10:54 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 10:58 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 11:06 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeistPaladin - April 3, 2015 at 12:34 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 12:57 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Angrboda - April 3, 2015 at 7:39 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeistPaladin - April 3, 2015 at 8:03 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - April 3, 2015 at 8:31 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeistPaladin - April 3, 2015 at 8:59 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Chas - April 3, 2015 at 10:17 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeadChannel - March 26, 2015 at 7:39 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Chas - March 26, 2015 at 7:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Minimalist - March 26, 2015 at 7:13 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - March 26, 2015 at 8:30 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 8:56 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 8:36 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeadChannel - March 26, 2015 at 8:38 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - March 26, 2015 at 9:03 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 28, 2015 at 3:07 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 28, 2015 at 3:14 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Minimalist - April 3, 2015 at 12:09 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - March 26, 2015 at 9:54 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 10:14 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by JuliaL - March 26, 2015 at 10:16 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - March 27, 2015 at 4:29 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 28, 2015 at 3:19 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 28, 2015 at 1:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 28, 2015 at 5:54 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 28, 2015 at 6:14 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 28, 2015 at 6:23 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 29, 2015 at 1:48 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 29, 2015 at 1:56 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 29, 2015 at 2:02 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 29, 2015 at 2:16 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - March 27, 2015 at 4:48 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by downbeatplumb - March 27, 2015 at 5:04 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Lucanus - March 27, 2015 at 5:22 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - March 27, 2015 at 8:02 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Lucanus - March 27, 2015 at 8:41 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cyberman - March 27, 2015 at 8:31 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by JuliaL - March 27, 2015 at 9:15 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 27, 2015 at 2:23 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by RobertE - March 27, 2015 at 5:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - March 27, 2015 at 6:05 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 27, 2015 at 6:58 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Joods - March 27, 2015 at 7:31 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by JuliaL - March 27, 2015 at 9:01 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Joods - March 27, 2015 at 11:44 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Desert Diva - March 27, 2015 at 7:38 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 27, 2015 at 8:18 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Surgenator - March 27, 2015 at 11:48 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 28, 2015 at 1:22 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by WinterHold - March 28, 2015 at 8:15 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by RobertE - March 28, 2015 at 8:22 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by WinterHold - March 28, 2015 at 8:27 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by RobertE - March 28, 2015 at 9:05 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Desert Diva - March 28, 2015 at 12:01 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by WinterHold - March 28, 2015 at 12:48 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Desert Diva - March 28, 2015 at 1:23 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by WinterHold - March 28, 2015 at 3:07 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by RobertE - March 28, 2015 at 1:33 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - March 29, 2015 at 6:07 am
q - by Cheerful Charlie - March 29, 2015 at 12:26 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 29, 2015 at 1:06 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - March 29, 2015 at 2:27 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 2, 2015 at 4:22 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 2, 2015 at 4:28 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - April 2, 2015 at 4:59 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 2, 2015 at 7:04 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - April 2, 2015 at 7:22 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 7:19 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - April 3, 2015 at 7:39 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 3, 2015 at 8:42 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 2, 2015 at 4:23 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 2, 2015 at 4:28 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 2, 2015 at 5:04 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cato - April 2, 2015 at 6:07 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 2, 2015 at 7:14 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 3, 2015 at 2:08 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 10:31 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 3, 2015 at 8:34 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 5, 2015 at 6:48 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 3, 2015 at 10:33 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 10:42 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - April 3, 2015 at 5:57 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 10:44 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 3, 2015 at 10:47 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 11:07 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 11:13 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 11:16 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 11:27 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 11:30 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 11:35 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 11:36 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 11:41 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 11:42 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 11:45 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Surgenator - April 3, 2015 at 12:26 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 12:34 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Surgenator - April 3, 2015 at 1:20 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brakeman - April 3, 2015 at 6:21 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Minimalist - April 3, 2015 at 9:09 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeistPaladin - April 3, 2015 at 9:10 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by CapnAwesome - April 3, 2015 at 10:38 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by dyresand - April 3, 2015 at 11:19 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Minimalist - April 3, 2015 at 11:10 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 4, 2015 at 4:43 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 8:48 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 12:38 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by dyresand - April 4, 2015 at 1:09 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 1:31 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 1:53 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 4, 2015 at 2:25 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 2:40 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 4, 2015 at 4:38 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by dyresand - April 4, 2015 at 1:45 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 4, 2015 at 1:55 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 2:00 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Chas - April 4, 2015 at 4:16 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 2:04 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 2:13 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 2:26 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 4, 2015 at 2:20 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 2:24 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 2:46 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 4, 2015 at 2:37 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 2:48 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 2:50 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 4, 2015 at 2:52 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 2:53 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - April 4, 2015 at 10:01 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Surgenator - April 4, 2015 at 4:31 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 5:19 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Chas - April 4, 2015 at 5:41 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 6:20 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Chas - April 4, 2015 at 7:22 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 4, 2015 at 6:41 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - April 4, 2015 at 5:44 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cato - April 4, 2015 at 6:27 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - April 4, 2015 at 7:16 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 6:52 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 4, 2015 at 6:59 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cyberman - April 5, 2015 at 3:58 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 7:24 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 4, 2015 at 7:39 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - April 4, 2015 at 7:42 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - April 4, 2015 at 7:32 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 7:42 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 7:58 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 7:59 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 8:16 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 8:27 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - April 4, 2015 at 8:28 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by dyresand - April 4, 2015 at 8:36 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - April 4, 2015 at 8:37 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 8:49 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - April 4, 2015 at 9:43 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 9:52 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 10:02 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 10:08 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 10:10 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 10:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 10:13 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 10:15 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 10:19 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 10:24 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 10:25 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - April 4, 2015 at 10:08 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 10:28 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 10:35 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 10:44 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 11:03 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - April 4, 2015 at 11:05 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by dyresand - April 5, 2015 at 1:14 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 5, 2015 at 4:46 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 4:59 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 6:09 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 5, 2015 at 12:23 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 1:02 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 5, 2015 at 1:06 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 1:30 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 5, 2015 at 2:28 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 9:45 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 5, 2015 at 9:51 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 9:58 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by RobertE - April 5, 2015 at 10:05 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 10:31 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brakeman - April 5, 2015 at 10:57 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 10:35 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 11:01 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 11:06 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brakeman - April 5, 2015 at 11:29 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 1:12 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brakeman - April 5, 2015 at 4:46 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 5, 2015 at 1:40 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 11:07 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 11:27 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 12:47 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Angrboda - April 5, 2015 at 1:08 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 1:22 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 1:43 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 5, 2015 at 1:46 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 2:01 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 2:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 5, 2015 at 5:01 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 2:27 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 5, 2015 at 2:36 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 5, 2015 at 2:43 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 3:03 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 5, 2015 at 3:25 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 3:35 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 5, 2015 at 4:10 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 4:13 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 5, 2015 at 4:30 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 7:50 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brakeman - April 5, 2015 at 8:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 10:39 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 6, 2015 at 4:50 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - April 5, 2015 at 8:41 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 6, 2015 at 4:57 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 6, 2015 at 5:09 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 7:01 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 6, 2015 at 5:14 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 6, 2015 at 5:24 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 6, 2015 at 5:15 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 8:11 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 8:31 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 8:48 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - April 6, 2015 at 9:34 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 12:00 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 6, 2015 at 8:48 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 6, 2015 at 9:08 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 12:24 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 6, 2015 at 1:03 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by RobertE - April 6, 2015 at 9:22 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 11:27 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 12:05 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 1:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 5:39 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 5:40 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 5:41 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 5:46 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 5:48 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 5:53 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brakeman - April 6, 2015 at 5:55 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 5:58 pm
General argument for Islam. - by Etrius - April 19, 2015 at 2:22 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 19, 2015 at 7:42 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 19, 2015 at 3:37 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cyberman - April 19, 2015 at 8:00 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 19, 2015 at 8:10 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cyberman - April 19, 2015 at 1:31 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 19, 2015 at 4:09 pm
General argument for Islam. - by Etrius - April 19, 2015 at 1:39 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 19, 2015 at 2:51 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cyberman - April 19, 2015 at 4:02 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 19, 2015 at 4:08 pm

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