(April 10, 2015 at 10:17 pm)Lek Wrote: Okay. So "suffering is bad because it causes suffering".
I don't often say this to the theists here, but in your case I can: you are better than this level of deliberate obtuseness. The badness of suffering is pretty inherent in what it is; suffering is defined by the negative effects it causes in others.
Quote:In your opinion, if God cannot achieve his goal without causing suffering, then he's not omnipotent.
No, in the definition of omnipotence, a god that cannot achieve its goal without causing suffering is not omnipotent, because omnipotent things do not have limitations.
Quote:I won't even try to refute that because I've already stated my opinion about that, which is not suffering is not necessarily immoral, and you've only given your own opinion. that it is always immoral.
Yes, but you've only been able to cogently defend suffering by stating that good things come through it. That's your argument, don't blame me for using it too; if suffering can only be redeemed by the positives that happen in its wake, then the positives are what is desirable, not the suffering. If those positives can be attained without the attendant suffering, as god surely could do, then there is no reason to include the suffering at all, and yet god still does.
Quote: As far as God giving us evidence about himself, it's in the bible and in the world that he created. Many see the universe as evidence for God, but I guess everybody doesn't agree.
The universe is evidence for the universe, and appeals to the bible are pure circular reasoning, nothing more.
Quote:I really don't think that it's possible for you to define what is moral and what isn't. What's your authority for defining morality? Must my morality be the same as yours?
Morality isn't dependent on authority, or else it's just fiat declaration; if god is your "authority" for defining morality, then if god declared that all previously immoral things were moral, would you be bound to follow that? If so, your definition of morality is utterly meaningless.
Oh, and don't bring up that tired old "must my morality be the same as yours?" crap: if it's an argument against secular morality then it's an argument against christian morality too, as I've already pointed out to you numerous times that nobody "must" follow christian morality either, as the presence of other religions establishes pretty well.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!