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General argument for Islam.
RE: General argument for Islam.
(April 19, 2015 at 2:22 am)Etrius Wrote: General Argument for Atheism.
Before actually becoming an atheist, rejecting any religion, any diety. A man puts a lot, A LOT of thought into this. A man thinks for days, weeks, months, analyses and tries to explain. And after finding put that there is no proof, no clear evidence to any religion, except for a few books that DON'T prove anything, a man Becomes an Atheist.

Theists on the other side think less about that. Theists have only one argument, believe and god will accept you in heaven. No theist actually thinks or searches for true, valid argument of his/her religion. Je just believes.

So to end this:
An atheist thinks for months, before taking the final decision, and still tries to prove right/wrong for the rest of his life.
A theist blindly believes, blindly reads a book or some papers and just believes it's true.

NOTHING MORE, to be added...

I hate adding "ism" to the word "atheist" as if it were a religion or political party. It is not a dogma, it is a conclusion. Outside that common conclusion of "off" we are just as diverse in our political and economic and classes.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 7:07 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 7:10 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 7:14 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 7:23 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 7:26 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 7:31 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 7:45 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 7:54 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 8:06 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 8:20 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 8:47 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 8:49 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 9:04 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeistPaladin - April 3, 2015 at 10:38 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 10:54 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 10:58 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 11:06 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeistPaladin - April 3, 2015 at 12:34 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 12:57 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Angrboda - April 3, 2015 at 7:39 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeistPaladin - April 3, 2015 at 8:03 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - April 3, 2015 at 8:31 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeistPaladin - April 3, 2015 at 8:59 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Chas - April 3, 2015 at 10:17 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeadChannel - March 26, 2015 at 7:39 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Chas - March 26, 2015 at 7:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Minimalist - March 26, 2015 at 7:13 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - March 26, 2015 at 8:30 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 8:56 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 8:36 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeadChannel - March 26, 2015 at 8:38 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - March 26, 2015 at 9:03 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 28, 2015 at 3:07 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 28, 2015 at 3:14 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Minimalist - April 3, 2015 at 12:09 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - March 26, 2015 at 9:54 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 10:14 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by JuliaL - March 26, 2015 at 10:16 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - March 27, 2015 at 4:29 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 28, 2015 at 3:19 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 28, 2015 at 1:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 28, 2015 at 5:54 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 28, 2015 at 6:14 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 28, 2015 at 6:23 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 29, 2015 at 1:48 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 29, 2015 at 1:56 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 29, 2015 at 2:02 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 29, 2015 at 2:16 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - March 27, 2015 at 4:48 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by downbeatplumb - March 27, 2015 at 5:04 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Lucanus - March 27, 2015 at 5:22 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - March 27, 2015 at 8:02 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Lucanus - March 27, 2015 at 8:41 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cyberman - March 27, 2015 at 8:31 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by JuliaL - March 27, 2015 at 9:15 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 27, 2015 at 2:23 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by RobertE - March 27, 2015 at 5:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - March 27, 2015 at 6:05 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 27, 2015 at 6:58 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Joods - March 27, 2015 at 7:31 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by JuliaL - March 27, 2015 at 9:01 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Joods - March 27, 2015 at 11:44 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Desert Diva - March 27, 2015 at 7:38 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 27, 2015 at 8:18 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Surgenator - March 27, 2015 at 11:48 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 28, 2015 at 1:22 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by WinterHold - March 28, 2015 at 8:15 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by RobertE - March 28, 2015 at 8:22 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by WinterHold - March 28, 2015 at 8:27 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by RobertE - March 28, 2015 at 9:05 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Desert Diva - March 28, 2015 at 12:01 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by WinterHold - March 28, 2015 at 12:48 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Desert Diva - March 28, 2015 at 1:23 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by WinterHold - March 28, 2015 at 3:07 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by RobertE - March 28, 2015 at 1:33 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - March 29, 2015 at 6:07 am
q - by Cheerful Charlie - March 29, 2015 at 12:26 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 29, 2015 at 1:06 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - March 29, 2015 at 2:27 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 2, 2015 at 4:22 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 2, 2015 at 4:28 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - April 2, 2015 at 4:59 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 2, 2015 at 7:04 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - April 2, 2015 at 7:22 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 7:19 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - April 3, 2015 at 7:39 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 3, 2015 at 8:42 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 2, 2015 at 4:23 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 2, 2015 at 4:28 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 2, 2015 at 5:04 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cato - April 2, 2015 at 6:07 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 2, 2015 at 7:14 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 3, 2015 at 2:08 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 10:31 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 3, 2015 at 8:34 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 5, 2015 at 6:48 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 3, 2015 at 10:33 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 10:42 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - April 3, 2015 at 5:57 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 10:44 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 3, 2015 at 10:47 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 11:07 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 11:13 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 11:16 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 11:27 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 11:30 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 11:35 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 11:36 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 11:41 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 11:42 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 11:45 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Surgenator - April 3, 2015 at 12:26 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 12:34 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Surgenator - April 3, 2015 at 1:20 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brakeman - April 3, 2015 at 6:21 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Minimalist - April 3, 2015 at 9:09 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeistPaladin - April 3, 2015 at 9:10 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by CapnAwesome - April 3, 2015 at 10:38 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by dyresand - April 3, 2015 at 11:19 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Minimalist - April 3, 2015 at 11:10 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 4, 2015 at 4:43 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 8:48 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 12:38 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by dyresand - April 4, 2015 at 1:09 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 1:31 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 1:53 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 4, 2015 at 2:25 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 2:40 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 4, 2015 at 4:38 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by dyresand - April 4, 2015 at 1:45 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 4, 2015 at 1:55 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 2:00 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Chas - April 4, 2015 at 4:16 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 2:04 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 2:13 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 2:26 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 4, 2015 at 2:20 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 2:24 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 2:46 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 4, 2015 at 2:37 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 2:48 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 2:50 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 4, 2015 at 2:52 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 2:53 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - April 4, 2015 at 10:01 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Surgenator - April 4, 2015 at 4:31 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 5:19 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Chas - April 4, 2015 at 5:41 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 6:20 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Chas - April 4, 2015 at 7:22 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 4, 2015 at 6:41 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - April 4, 2015 at 5:44 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cato - April 4, 2015 at 6:27 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - April 4, 2015 at 7:16 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 6:52 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 4, 2015 at 6:59 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cyberman - April 5, 2015 at 3:58 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 7:24 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 4, 2015 at 7:39 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - April 4, 2015 at 7:42 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - April 4, 2015 at 7:32 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 7:42 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 7:58 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 7:59 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 8:16 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 8:27 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - April 4, 2015 at 8:28 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by dyresand - April 4, 2015 at 8:36 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - April 4, 2015 at 8:37 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 8:49 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - April 4, 2015 at 9:43 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 9:52 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 10:02 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 10:08 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 10:10 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 10:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 10:13 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 10:15 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 10:19 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 10:24 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 10:25 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - April 4, 2015 at 10:08 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 10:28 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 10:35 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 10:44 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 11:03 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - April 4, 2015 at 11:05 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by dyresand - April 5, 2015 at 1:14 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 5, 2015 at 4:46 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 4:59 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 6:09 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 5, 2015 at 12:23 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 1:02 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 5, 2015 at 1:06 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 1:30 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 5, 2015 at 2:28 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 9:45 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 5, 2015 at 9:51 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 9:58 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by RobertE - April 5, 2015 at 10:05 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 10:31 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brakeman - April 5, 2015 at 10:57 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 10:35 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 11:01 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 11:06 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brakeman - April 5, 2015 at 11:29 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 1:12 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brakeman - April 5, 2015 at 4:46 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 5, 2015 at 1:40 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 11:07 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 11:27 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 12:47 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Angrboda - April 5, 2015 at 1:08 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 1:22 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 1:43 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 5, 2015 at 1:46 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 2:01 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 2:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 5, 2015 at 5:01 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 2:27 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 5, 2015 at 2:36 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 5, 2015 at 2:43 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 3:03 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 5, 2015 at 3:25 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 3:35 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 5, 2015 at 4:10 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 4:13 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 5, 2015 at 4:30 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 7:50 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brakeman - April 5, 2015 at 8:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 10:39 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 6, 2015 at 4:50 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - April 5, 2015 at 8:41 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 6, 2015 at 4:57 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 6, 2015 at 5:09 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 7:01 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 6, 2015 at 5:14 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 6, 2015 at 5:24 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 6, 2015 at 5:15 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 8:11 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 8:31 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 8:48 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - April 6, 2015 at 9:34 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 12:00 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 6, 2015 at 8:48 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 6, 2015 at 9:08 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 12:24 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 6, 2015 at 1:03 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by RobertE - April 6, 2015 at 9:22 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 11:27 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 12:05 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 1:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 5:39 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 5:40 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 5:41 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 5:46 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 5:48 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 5:53 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brakeman - April 6, 2015 at 5:55 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 5:58 pm
General argument for Islam. - by Etrius - April 19, 2015 at 2:22 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 19, 2015 at 7:42 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 19, 2015 at 3:37 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cyberman - April 19, 2015 at 8:00 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 19, 2015 at 8:10 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cyberman - April 19, 2015 at 1:31 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 19, 2015 at 4:09 pm
General argument for Islam. - by Etrius - April 19, 2015 at 1:39 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 19, 2015 at 2:51 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cyberman - April 19, 2015 at 4:02 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 19, 2015 at 4:08 pm

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