(April 20, 2015 at 6:23 pm)Cephus Wrote:Hmm humans are tribal beings so we're supposed to care about our group. It's how it works.(April 20, 2015 at 3:10 pm)Godslayer Wrote: ^ Exactly, these feminists can't understand that Egalitarianism is the umbrella term for feminism and men's rights and trans-rights, not the other way around.
Exactly. These people don't want equal rights for all, they only care about equality for their pet groups. Where their pet groups have more rights than others they don't like, they're completely silent. The fact is, women make up 58% of university graduates today, but they're only screaming about more money to send more women to school. They don't want equality. They want revenge. They're also not talking about all of the advantages they have over men. They think they deserve that. They don't mention it when women get lighter sentences for the exact same crimes. They don't say a word when women get better access to child custody and support payments. They never campaign to have some of that massive pile of money that goes to breast cancer research go to, say, prostate cancer research. It's not even in their rhetoric, they don't care. That's why they're trying to steal the thunder from egalitarianism because if anyone actually looked at how they operate in the real world, it becomes painfully clear that they don't give a damn about equality for all, they only care about rights for their in-group.
Really? 58%? So what? Most degrees women pursue are either feminine jobs, less well paid jobs that don't allow leadership positions or degrees where lots of unemployment. To give you an example, in my country there's a LOT (and I mean a lot) of universities for psychology, education/teaching and nursing. Do you wanna guess the percentage of women? Yeah, pretty high. Do you wanna guess the percentage of unemployment for those degrees? Sometimes over 50%. So yeah, it's irrelevant the percentage of people in college without taking into account what degree it is, how much it pays, how much support you get, etc.
Lighter sentences? Already covered that? Child custody and support payments? Most are settled before court with an agreement. And even if you conclude women get child custody more often, facts are that (1) Women work less hours and receive less so it makes sense for women to stay more time with children and for men to pay (2) Gender roles put men as the breadwinners and women as child bearers so it's natural that even the wisest court will be biased in favour of women because they take better care of children
I am confused because you mentioned you are a conservative but conservatism is fundamentally incompatible with egalitarianism, so much that it's usually a leftist word to describe utopian ideas. Conservatives believe in helping people, but are not naive to believe everyone will really get the same opportunity.
Since we already analysed your case and noticed you need to study a bit of sociology to realize how prejudices, social structures, disadvantages and social inequality works (And hurts people) why should anyone care about your pre-packaged rhetoric that can be found on any MRA rant about how feminism oppresses men?
Quote:I agree with you, and I think the fact that men are considered more dangerous is systemic and institutionalized inequality. I don't agree that women should be given less time because they will not survive in prison; prisons exist which are women only and women survive in them fine. Also, prison sentences shouldn't be about whether a person can survive or not in prison; prisons should be created such that any person who is incarcerated there is both punished and protected from harm.Yes, as long as prisons don't allow violence and sexual abuses it's fine. Women can survive and usually they form gangs and perpetuate violence inside prisons, it's not a problem only for male prisons.
Quote:I disagree that it's a false dichotomy. I never said that you had to focus on men / gays / transsexuals equally to women, but if a feminist stands for equality for all, they should at least focus on those groups some of the time. The reason a lot of feminists get flack and opposition is because they claim that feminism is about equal rights, but then do nothing for men's rights, and in some cases deny outright that there are social inequalities which men face.
Yes, but can you not focus more on your group? One doesn't magically discard the other possibility. I can tell you with safety that most articles on feminism sites are about women, but once in a while you find things like men being raped (1/6 men are abused) and men facing problems like sexual abuse, domestic violence, coping with toxic masculinity that leads to drug abuse, etc.
Quote:If you want to call yourself a feminist and say it's about ridding inequalities for everyone, but then you only focus on inequalities which affect women, then to me, that appears very one sided.
Why not both?
Quote:But *ALL* lives matter, but the second anyone points that out, the feminists scream racism. It isn't just black lives that matter, it isn't just female lives that matter, it isn't just gay lives that matter, it's ALL lives. Most people are on board with egalitarianism, it's just the online vocal feminists who are screaming and whining at anyone who doesn't put *THEIR* lives at the top of the pile.
If you made some research you would know that the reason why things like BlackLivesMatter happen is because there's injustices you face just because you are black. The probability of being incarcerated or shot by a cop as a black person is much higher. The whole BlackLivesMatter is to make a point about racism. It isn't saying that whites don't matter, no one wants to oppress whites (or very few people). It's not putting lives at the top of the pile, it's saying that just because someone is black you can't shoot them on sight or frisk them more often than you would normally
As for WomenLives I have never been into Twitter enough to see it but I guess it probably comes in a context of problems that affect women more because they are women like sex trafficking and consequent abuse, sexual slavery + rape, domestic abuse that goes unnoticed and sometimes women get sentenced for shooting their abuse, etc.
It's you who are not seeing the point so much that you need to come up with the AllLivesMatter when no one was denying that, people were just finding a good motto to actually make a point about racism, violence and prejudices. A good question to ask yourself is what is the probability of a black wearing dirty clothes being frisked compared to a white who would probably pass as a hippie.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you