(May 2, 2015 at 2:30 pm)Lek Wrote:(May 2, 2015 at 2:02 pm)Salacious B. Crumb Wrote: Faith is blind because it's based on no evidence. How can you see god in people and nature? Isn't god omnibenevolent? People can be good or bad, but never perfect, like you claim your god is. Nature can be pleasant and serene, but it is very harsh as we have just witnessed in Nepal. Unless you see god as vulnerable to 'sin' as humans then, I'm afraid I'm not understanding your argument.
First of all, the scriptures are evidence.
Sure, but so are the Iliad and the Odyssey, not to mention the Koran and the sacred books of Hindus, Buddhists, etc. Only a fool, though, takes such books at face value. Such books are a very low grade of evidence, so you are going to need something else to make your beliefs even close to reasonable.
(May 2, 2015 at 2:30 pm)Lek Wrote: A universe that exists despite of the fact that natural things cannot create something out of nothing is evidence for a creator.
I could take a philosophical approach, and ask you to prove that things cannot create something out of nothing, but I will set that bit aside for the moment.
In order for your argument to have any traction, you need to prove that the universe has not always existed. If the universe has always existed, then not only does it not need a creator, it cannot have one.
If you mention the Big Bang in connection with this, that isn't going to get you what you need for this. Right now, scientists tell us that the universe is expanding. It is possible that the universe will continue to expand forever. Another possibility, though, is that eventually gravity will slow everything down, and pull everything back together. If that happens, then things will be going at tremendous speed when they eventually collide, causing a very big bang. Perhaps that is what has happened in the past, and has been going on over and over again forever. For you to make use of the Big Bang as evidence, you will have to prove that that is not the case, and I defy you to do that to the satisfaction of physicists who study such things.
(May 2, 2015 at 2:30 pm)Lek Wrote: A universe that created itself, or is made of natural stuff that always existed is evidence of a supernatural existence.
No. You need to say something more on that, and prove that somehow natural processes require supernatural ones in order for that to get you anywhere. Frankly, the evidence is very much against you on this, as there is no evidence of divine intervention when natural things occur.
(May 2, 2015 at 2:30 pm)Lek Wrote: Knowing that our universe is expanding shows that something exists beyond our natural world, and heaven and hell could be out there.
No, it shows no such thing. There could easily be nothing outside the universe. You will have to come up with actual evidence that something exists outside of the universe for your story to be reasonable to believe.
(May 2, 2015 at 2:30 pm)Lek Wrote: The bible testifies to the existence of a being who fits into these scenarios and prophesies about Jesus. Jesus is attested to by the writers of the new testament who lived during the lifetime of Jesus. People I trust tell of how God has worked in their lives in supernatural ways. I believe he's working in my life. This is all evidence for the truth of christianity and I choose to believe that evidence. Many people live and die only according to "hard" evidence, and I appreciate things proven that way myself. I even accept evolution which isn't totally proven, but I also like to keep my sights open to possibilities beyond that which science and math have the capacity to prove or disprove.
Your feelings about Christianity are the same as many Muslims report about their feelings about Islam. Your feelings are no better evidence than their feelings. And since you both cannot be right, this means that your feelings prove absolutely nothing at all.
If you had been raised a Muslim, right now you would very likely be regarding your feelings as proof that Islam is true. Or if you had been raised a Hindu, you would probably be regarding your feelings as proof that Hinduism is true.
Basically, what you are telling us is worthless as evidence. You only feel it is valuable because you have largely ignored the fact that people of other religions feel precisely the same way about their religions.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
