RE: Can You Technically Disprove the God of the Bible?
May 2, 2015 at 7:35 pm
(This post was last modified: May 2, 2015 at 8:33 pm by SteelCurtain.
Edit Reason: Fixed Quoting Error
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(May 2, 2015 at 2:57 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: Sure, but so are the Iliad and the Odyssey, not to mention the Koran and the sacred books of Hindus, Buddhists, etc. Only a fool, though, takes such books at face value. Such books are a very low grade of evidence, so you are going to need something else to make your beliefs even close to reasonable.
The bible is far superior to any other "holy book. It consists of a series of books written over many centuries, by numerous authors from different time periods, which carry on the message of the coming messiah. Jesus fulfilled the prophecies. The Koran all hangs on the testimony of one man. Hindus' writings are so fractured as to be incohesive. They just keep creating more and more gods.
(May 2, 2015 at 2:57 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: I could take a philosophical approach, and ask you to prove that things cannot create something out of nothing, but I will set that bit aside for the moment.
That wouldn't be scientific.
(May 2, 2015 at 2:57 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: In order for your argument to have any traction, you need to prove that the universe has not always existed. If the universe has always existed, then not only does it not need a creator, it cannot have one.
If you mention the Big Bang in connection with this, that isn't going to get you what you need for this. Right now, scientists tell us that the universe is expanding. It is possible that the universe will continue to expand forever. Another possibility, though, is that eventually gravity will slow everything down, and pull everything back together. If that happens, then things will be going at tremendous speed when they eventually collide, causing a very big bang. Perhaps that is what has happened in the past, and has been going on over and over again forever. For you to make use of the Big Bang as evidence, you will have to prove that that is not the case, and I defy you to do that to the satisfaction of physicists who study such things.
Natural law doesn't allow for something to come from nothing. There is also no way for science or mathematics to prove that the universe always existed. You must step outside of your scientific box in order to contemplate that abstract idea. You must use a different type of reasoning to come to the conclusion that what exists in the phyhscal world always existed and never had a beginning, which is what theists do.
(May 2, 2015 at 2:57 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: No, it shows no such thing. There could easily be nothing outside the universe. You will have to come up with actual evidence that something exists outside of the universe for your story to be reasonable to believe.
Can natural laws account for the universe to expand into something that doesn't exist?
(May 2, 2015 at 2:57 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: Your feelings about Christianity are the same as many Muslims report about their feelings about Islam. Your feelings are no better evidence than their feelings. And since you both cannot be right, this means that your feelings prove absolutely nothing at all.
If you had been raised a Muslim, right now you would very likely be regarding your feelings as proof that Islam is true. Or if you had been raised a Hindu, you would probably be regarding your feelings as proof that Hinduism is true.
Basically, what you are telling us is worthless as evidence. You only feel it is valuable because you have largely ignored the fact that people of other religions feel precisely the same way about their religions.
If the evidence is truthful and leads someone to discover God, then it is very worthwhile evidence.
Sorry. I don't know what happened with the formatting on this one. I went back to edit and lost some markers and it's too long to mess with.
(May 2, 2015 at 7:25 pm)Jericho Wrote: But the 'evidence' we inherently have for people loving us is based on actual, person-to-person experience and exposure. Trying to use that evidence for God is useless, as he is not a physical entity and whose existence is questioned by many.
How about the God-to-person experience? If you can experience love from someone, why can't I experience love from God? We're both having an experience that only we can verify.