Logic of chance

[josef rosenkranz]

Also I was essentially getting at the same point i.e.;

Highly complex universe due to randomness = Improbable

Actually, it is randomness itself that allows large, complex structures to form. An initial uniform will be uniform for all time, but randomness will 'seed' tiny inhomogeneities that will, say, grab slightly more matter than the surroundings.

Being capable of creating said universe from nothing must be significcantly more complex = Very Very Improable

I've heard Dawkins say something to that effect. Why would a Creator necessarily be more complex than the Creation? As we all know, the universe can develop on its own without any obvious divine interference (the expansion of the universe, novae, evolution, etc, all occur naturally). So perhaps the Creator needs only to be at least as complex as the initial universe?

Basically, why does a Creator need to be complex?

DD Hi
Our debate in my thread "determinism vs. indeterminism" has burnt out but I'm glad to see that it has revived in this thread under another name.
The French have a saying :La meme Jeannette mais autrement coifee.
It's basic french ,need not to be translated.
The debate here is going on in the high spheres of the creation of the universe, which is very interesting,but my impression is of speculative thinking, doubtfully related to the last theories of the physicist.

If the theory of Stephen Hawking who recognized that his,for long years assumption that information of black holes is going to vanish in nothing when the black hole has finished his radiation,is not true and the information wanders to other parrallel universes is right, then the debate about the creation of "our" universe becomes a "provincial" debate.

The Bible teaches us about the creation of our world and so do perhaps the theist and the Id-ists. Isnt it all obsolete?:thinking
Instead of thinking about one Creator we must begin to think about a lot of them .

The Bible is perhaps right afterall when it gave god a lot of names like Lord ,God allmighty,King,King of kings,Father,Jehovah,Allah and so on.
We'll have from now on to be carefully and to name for each universe the righr name of it's Creator .
Here is an important question : are Paradises and Hells common to all universes or has each of them his ownn retribution/punishment
institution?
Now let's come down to our ordinary physical world.
I think it would be more interesting to debate about chance (indeterminism) in Physics,Biology,Sociology,Economy,Politics,even,why not, Meteorology and so on .
Such a debate I believe shall bring us back with no doubt to atheism.