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Current time: June 5, 2020, 10:43 am

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By chance?
#1
By chance?
Here's an expose I read that should give anyone on the fence about life arising by chance, serious pause. Sure it's an argument from incredulity which is still valid because incredulity can come in quite handy when making assumptions. In fact, when someone told me the moon was made of cheese, I said "no way, that would be way too incredible" and I was right.


Single proteins do not have any function on their own unless interconnected correctly in a living cell. In order for life to begin naturally, all essential proteins required for life to start would have had to emerge randomly on a prebiotic earth, protein super-complexes like ribosomes would have had to join the subparts together to get the right protein-protein interactions, like lock and key. A miracle would have had to prevent them to be burned by UV radiation. Then start to interconnect in the correct order to create a functional metabolic network and multi-protein production lines , where the joint venture of several enzymes began to produce functional products, hand them over to carrier mechanisms, tag them in order to be transported to the right locations. Somehow, all this would have had to begin in a protected environment, so a protective envelope would have had to exist. That envelope had to emerge fully functional with ” gates ” that permit the right materials in, and the waste product out.

Once the data storage system (DNA) emerged, a language based on a code system had to be established, and the blueprint to store the information to make all parts of the cell had to be stored within it, and DNA replication errors had to be reduced 10.000.000.000 times.

Let’s suppose that a self-replicating RNA molecule would appear miraculously on early earth. that does not explain the origin of the information to make all life essential parts in the cell.
It is as to go just from a hard drive storage device to a self replicating factory with the ability of self replication of the entire factory once ready, to respond to changing environmental demands and regulate its metabolic pathways, regulate and coordinate all cellular processes, such as molecule and building block biosynthesis according to the cells demands, depending on growth, and other factors.

The ability of uptake of nutrients, to be structured, internally compartmentalized and organized, being able to check replication errors and minimize them, and react to stimuli, and changing environments. That’s is, the ability to adapt to the environment is a must right from the beginning.

If just ONE single protein or enzyme – of many – is missing, no life. If topoisomerase II or helicase are missing – no replication – no perpetuation of life.

Somehow, that envelope had to create a homeostatic environment, diminishing the calcium concentration in the cell 10000 times below the external environment, to permit signaling. At the same time, a signaling code would have had to be established, and immediately begin to function, with a common agreement between sender and receiver…………….energy supply would have been a major problem, since almost all life forms depend on the supply of glucose, which is a product of complex metabolic pathways, and not readily available on a prebiotic earth. Most proteins require active metal clusters in their reaction centers.

These clusters are in most cases ultracomplex, each cluster had to have the right atoms interconnected in the right way, and get the correct 3-dimensional form. They require the complex uptake of the basic materials, like iron and sulfur, molybdenum, and complex biosynthesis processes, and after the correct assembling, the insertion in the right way and form inside the proteins. All these processes require energy, in form of ATP, not readily available – since ATP is the product of complex nano-factories, like ATP synthase – which by themselves depend on a proton gradient. Sorry——- not by chance !!
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#2
RE: By chance?
So, in other words, your ancient fairy tale that was written by scientifically inept goat fucking troglodytes has no explanation for how life began other than the conjuring of a wish-granting magic sky wizard?
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#3
RE: By chance?
How did god do it?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”

Wiser words were never spoken. 
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#4
RE: By chance?
Since there is evidence for the co-evolution of proteins and no evidence for God miracle-ing them into existence, imma go with chance on this one.

And you don’t seem to understand what is meant by ‘argument from incredulity’.  It isn’t rejecting the notion that the moon is made of green cheese, it would be refusing to accept established facts about the moon because you, personally, don’t understand the science behind them. It includes as a sub-argument The Divine Fallacy, of which you seem particularly fond.

Boru
'A man is accepted into a church for what he believes.  He is turned out for what he knows.' - Mark Twain
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#5
RE: By chance?
So is he allowed to start another thread on essentially the same subject using pretty much the same failed reasoning ?
“The sun from far gives life. But get close to it and it burns anything down to ashes”
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#6
RE: By chance?
I like to think about how statistically improbable it must be to smoke while I smoke. All those random events that had to have happened from the beginning of creation to this moment, in this place, with this me and this exact toke.



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#7
RE: By chance?
At work.

Sooooo...... Round two of "Whack a mole/assertion" with Yukon_Jack, I presume?

Coffee
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#8
RE: By chance?
(January 16, 2020 at 10:04 pm)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: At work.

Sooooo...... Round two of "Whack a mole/assertion" with Yukon_Jack, I presume?

Coffee

Pretty much

(January 16, 2020 at 10:01 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: I like to think about how statistically improbable it must be to smoke while I smoke.  All those random events that had to have happened from the beginning of creation to this moment, in this place, with this me and this exact toke.

Pretty much
“The sun from far gives life. But get close to it and it burns anything down to ashes”
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#9
RE: By chance?
Wow, to think you digested all that and still think it happened by chance, tells me you will fall for anything.
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#10
RE: By chance?
Says the silly little indoctrinated spud.
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