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[split] Big Announcement and Invitation
#70
RE: [split] Big Announcement and Invitation
(May 19, 2015 at 3:24 am)robvalue Wrote: Even priests who are supposedly very close to God and talk to him and all that, still can't be persuaded not to abuse children. And God watches them do it, not stepping in, not even throwing them out of his church. Fuck free will. If someone is harming someone else, the harmed party has had their free will compromised. So why is the free will of the abuser to be preserved as precious while the poor child loses their free will, they can't get away, while this sick fuck abuses his authority and trust? God is not punishing them, neither is the church.

The problem with the free will excuse, like so many other theistic excuses made when their god fucks up, is that it fundamentally misunderstands what free will even is. One would think that being able to accurately represent the main concept of what you're talking about would be an extremely important part of any argument, but for theists I suspect that actually the most important thing is getting god off the hook, and so they'll settle for less.

Free will does not mean that one is absolutely, one hundred percent successful and able to perform any action they like, merely that they are able to desire and attempt that action. Whether they succeed or fail is immaterial; if they can try, then their free will is not compromised, and if there's any theists out there willing to argue this point, then they've already lost, because people fail at things all the time, so therefore god is already compromising their free will by not making them succeed, under that logic. Gravity prevents me from floating off of the planet whenever I want, so is my free will compromised by my earthbound nature? If so, then god is already breaking the premises of the argument, for everyone on the planet, and the argument is void. If not, then clearly I am not guaranteed success at whatever I want within the bounds of my free will, and the argument is void.

It follows, either way, that god can intervene in child rape cases. If success is a necessary component of free will then god is just making exceptions for child rapists in his already universal repression of free will, and that's entirely fucked up. If success is not required for free will, then god could ensure the rapist fails in his crime without breaking the rules. The argument fails either way, even if we ignore the obvious moral problems with the idea that god values the free will of rapists and killers over the safety of their victims, something that evidently our legal system will not lower itself to.

Got anything better than a misrepresentative nothing argument, theists?
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee

Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
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Messages In This Thread
[split] Big Announcement and Invitation - by LastPoet - May 17, 2015 at 9:54 am
RE: [split] Big Announcement and Invitation - by Esquilax - May 19, 2015 at 12:04 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Cato - May 17, 2015 at 9:55 am
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by dyresand - May 17, 2015 at 9:56 am
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by c172 - May 17, 2015 at 9:58 am
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Anomalocaris - May 17, 2015 at 10:04 am
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Iroscato - May 17, 2015 at 10:17 am
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Longhorn - May 17, 2015 at 10:21 am
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Crossless1 - May 17, 2015 at 10:23 am
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Alex K - May 17, 2015 at 10:38 am
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Cyberman - May 17, 2015 at 11:18 am
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Aoi Magi - May 17, 2015 at 11:28 am
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Minimalist - May 17, 2015 at 11:32 am
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Aoi Magi - May 17, 2015 at 11:42 am
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Randy Carson - May 17, 2015 at 11:53 am
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Longhorn - May 17, 2015 at 11:55 am
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Randy Carson - May 17, 2015 at 11:57 am
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Iroscato - May 17, 2015 at 11:59 am
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Cyberman - May 17, 2015 at 12:03 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Minimalist - May 17, 2015 at 12:04 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Randy Carson - May 17, 2015 at 12:11 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by downbeatplumb - May 17, 2015 at 12:13 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Minimalist - May 17, 2015 at 12:15 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Cyberman - May 17, 2015 at 12:15 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Randy Carson - May 17, 2015 at 12:16 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Cyberman - May 17, 2015 at 12:18 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by dyresand - May 17, 2015 at 12:19 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Longhorn - May 17, 2015 at 12:19 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Aoi Magi - May 17, 2015 at 12:20 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Randy Carson - May 17, 2015 at 12:20 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Cyberman - May 17, 2015 at 12:24 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Randy Carson - May 17, 2015 at 12:26 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by dyresand - May 17, 2015 at 12:29 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Minimalist - May 17, 2015 at 12:30 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Cyberman - May 17, 2015 at 12:31 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by dyresand - May 17, 2015 at 12:34 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Cyberman - May 17, 2015 at 12:36 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Randy Carson - May 17, 2015 at 12:59 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by dyresand - May 17, 2015 at 1:00 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Iroscato - May 17, 2015 at 1:14 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Randy Carson - May 17, 2015 at 1:14 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Cyberman - May 17, 2015 at 1:26 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by downbeatplumb - May 17, 2015 at 1:39 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Minimalist - May 17, 2015 at 1:46 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Randy Carson - May 17, 2015 at 2:04 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by dyresand - May 17, 2015 at 2:45 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Ravenshire - May 17, 2015 at 3:45 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by rexbeccarox - May 17, 2015 at 3:49 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Brian37 - May 17, 2015 at 3:51 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Minimalist - May 17, 2015 at 4:01 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by Angrboda - May 17, 2015 at 4:20 pm
RE: Big Announcement and Invitation - by SteelCurtain - May 17, 2015 at 4:33 pm

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