Hello, Anyone interested in a debate?

[Anima]

Nestor huh?  Would that be the Nestor of Homeric fame?

Yessir. 

Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes (I fear Greeks, even those bearing gifts).

Nah, not really. We may have to appeal to abstract notions of value that are attributable merely to our feelings about experience rather than some objective "good" that exists "out there" in which everyone who perceives the same data will form a similar consensus, though the commonality of our language and experiences can allow us to develop a framework for reaching agreement. The difference between myself and someone who appeals to divine powers is, as I see it, one in which I find definition and demonstration sufficient for establishing a moral standpoint, and deity at best to be redundant, at worst superfluous.

In a previous post the topic of subjective morality is pointed out as being self contradictory. Since, determination is based on "our feelings" it naturally follows that our feelings our biased in favor of ourselves and thereby leads to contradictory answer regarding a given moral question. The example given was it is okay for you to lie for your benefit while you would not consider it as okay for another to lie for their benefit. (The qualifier of necessity was left out intentionally to illustrate the contradictory answer in less definitive scenarios of morality).

If by lowering your "threshold of proof" you simply mean that human beings employ concepts derived from both the intellect and the senses, affirming that validity is not located in the external world, then I would contend that "personhood" is a product of language that is useful in describing veritable phenomena, and not imaginary in the same sense that "Godhead" is.   

Interesting. As i would argue that a production of language that is useful in describing veritable phenomena is imaginary in exactly the same sense as godhead. The distinction being the "personhood" linguistic production is regards to phenomena of self where as the "Godhead" linguistic production is in regards to a more teleological subject.

We don't have to stop at "homunculus." I'm more than happy to acknowledge that as a theoretical matter the distinct identity conceived as "I" in thought doesn't really exist in the sense that it appears in any given moment. It's more of a practical convention, and one that works at the level of consciousness which our brains evolved to process the environment and to operate as a most critical function within certain spatially separated organisms.

While I am glad you are willing to acknowledge as a theoretical matter it would appear that your acknowledgement lacks a certain...well level of acknowledgement. You are willing to forgo the distinctive identity of "I" as an imaginary construct, while still maintaining consciousness. But this consciousness, which you maintain is itself a metaphysical construct lacking sufficient "proof" in the same manner as the "I". "I" is the form following the function of consciousness. But I like your acquiescence of giving in without giving in

Untenable? I would rather think the reality that we in fact find ourselves in is quite tenable, even necessary as a consequence of perceiving subjects who interact with one another in a world consisting of both objective and subjective components.

Again. You are presuming the presence of I, us, or ourselves. Since there is not sufficient "proof" of the personhood or consciousness that gives rise to said personhood one cannot state we find ourselves anywhere due to the lack of we and the lack of self to be found. (This is of course excluding the argument that perception is done by the "I" and not simply the ontological nerve endings of the meat).

I wasn't making a statement as to whether or not we should stick to those biases. I was just recognizing that we understand them to exist and that much inquiry remains to be taken further.

You know this is just asking for it. "What proof do you have that they exist?" "What proof do you have that we recognize them?" "What proof do you have of 'we'?"

By all means, please feel free to define my options as you see fit! Just don't expect to always find your opponent in the box you've constructed for your convenience!  

Ha ha. Very well. At the same time do not think you are not in a box I constructed because you do not "feel" you belong there. After all... I "feel" you do (and both our feelings have equivalent evidentiary support)

Do you mean that if I had read past the first ten pages I would have found an argument of yours that was more compelling? 

The magnanimity of my opus is not limited to but one page!!