Hello, Anyone interested in a debate?

[nihilistcat]

francismjenkins: Reply


Look, honestly ... the sort of behavior we saw during the inquisition is pretty much par for the course in western history. So if a church didn't start or aggravate something like an inquisition, some other lunatic tyrant would have done the deed, or something like that (and it was a particularly bloody and shitty period in western history). But the average tyrant doesn't run around saying that he has a divine mandate, much less a divine mandate from an esoteric, anarcho-socialist hippy who's considered a god-man. Talk about irony; that's irony on genetically engineered steroids Smile

But I mean, except for the anarcho-socialist hippy part, it's not even a good story.

Another observation, it seems that either these religious characters are sterile virgins, or they're misogynistic lunatics. Where's the regular dude (or dudette) who just liked normal fucking? Oy, we were really weird back in the day.



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Hhahahaha I like.

I do not know how much of the history that I should go through to respond and answer your question. For now, I will keep it as short as possible, however, that always leaves out details that then causes confusion. But let’s give it a try

Of course the average tyrant did just that (run around calming that he was the rightful sovereign to the throne because he was anointed by God!) any possible threat  to his throne was very dangerous. Kings and Queens have been fighting all over Europe to keep both their land and title. Because of this the Implication would emerge.

Why?

The crime of heresy was illegal even secularly not just religious. Heresy meant that you were denying your Kings right and position as ruler of your nation and was tantamount to treason. It will be this reasoning that many civilians who were thought to be heretics (revolutionaries/terrorist’ plotting against the King) would be tried in secular courts for the crime of heresy which was punishable by death. The Church's involvement in the Inquisition emerged to rightly examine the causes of those who were found guilty of heresy. Heresy was also a religious action of rejecting the Church. It became an issue of who had jurisdiction over this crime, was it a religious or secular crime? The Church's Inquisition acted like an appeals court because only the cases where the civilians had already been found guilty under securely law were reviewed. In order for any case to be viewed by the Inquisition, it must first go thought the secular courts.

This may be the hardest part form many to believe and understand  but the inquisition fought to save lives, not to kill. . In many European countries in the 16th century, secular wars were the cause of tens of thousands of deaths. But in Spain, there was political and religious unity as a result of the Inquisition, and no such war would ever erupt in Spain. Heresy was a crime punishable by death under secular law, (remember heresy is seen as treason , denying the King) those who were tried by the Inquisition and found not guilty were set free and all charges dropped both secular and religious.

Furthermore, a person could refuse to stand before the inquisitorial court.  In which case the ruling of the secular court would stand and their sentences carried out. In Span at the high point of its Inqusition, late 1400 to early 1500, alone 125,000 people were investigated of which only 1.8% were executed. (popular view has put the number around 9 million by the popular press, with absolutely no scholarly research in support). http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/inquisition.htm

If we were to add all the major Inquisitions of 500 years, about 6,000 deaths would be the estimated total. These numbers are however, a far cry from  the assumed number of people killed This is about equal to the number of war related deaths in the first 2 years of both wars in Afghanistan and Iraq since 9/11. Each major war in its own right, Civil War World War One and Two, Vietnam War were far grater then the Inquisition alone.

HAHAHAHAHA      


And yes there many priest and some Popes who were married and had kids. Many also had mistresses.

There is a well know historical book The Letters of Abelard and Heloise that are the lettered of the two, a nun and a priest, that were lovers and went into the religious life. Even then they still kept up their sexual relationship, one of which occurred in a church.

I suppose I should have qualified the remark "average tyrant" ... and yes of course, absolutism in Europe (where monarchs did indeed claim a divine right).

And as I said, religion does not have a monopoly on tyranny, which is in agreement with the tenor of what you're saying here.

But then, there you go arguing by comparison. Well, our tyrants weren't quite as bad as modern tyrants. Like, who cares ... how does that help you prove that Jesus was a magician