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Jesus' imperfect miracles.
#16
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles.
(June 22, 2015 at 4:11 pm)Vicki Q Wrote: Firstly, it is important to distinguish between signs and miracles. The latter are a post-enlightenment innovation in which God intervenes in a mechanistic universe, breaking “The Rules of Nature”. Since scientific understanding has moved on, and theology shoulda never went there, we need to drop them as a framework for discussion.

The biblical concept of signs ('works of power' 'things we would not normally expect') is very different. Things happen within the Rules Of Nature which point us towards a better understanding of it. They point to a power not interfering with nature, but enabling it to be as it should be.

As to whether we should believe there is sufficient evidence for a change in our worldview to include God, that's a massive question. Standard historical methods, in particular multiple use of sources and forms, and the criteria of coherence, make it virtually impossible that all Gospel signs were totally made up. ..
Since an identifiable god does not exist in our realm of reality, there is no difference between your "miracles" and your "signs." It is simply that we now know miracles to be absurd and faked, but yet your signs are still salable to the gullible becouse they sneak the "magic WOo WOo" in the back door. For god to send a "sign" to anyone, he would need to not only be sentient (unevidenced) but also he would have to use "WOo WOo Magic" to create the energy to affect the real physical world. Even our eyes require real photons to tickle our rods and cones.
There is no difference between the two magic shows, except that "Signs" only use a pinch of magic sparkle fairy dust, whereas "miracles" use a whole handful.
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Messages In This Thread
Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Brakeman - June 20, 2015 at 11:03 pm
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by vorlon13 - June 20, 2015 at 11:28 pm
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Randy Carson - June 21, 2015 at 1:12 am
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Wyrd of Gawd - June 22, 2015 at 3:00 am
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Vicki Q - June 22, 2015 at 4:11 pm
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Brakeman - June 22, 2015 at 11:27 pm
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Vicki Q - June 23, 2015 at 4:26 pm
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Wyrd of Gawd - June 23, 2015 at 12:57 am
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Minimalist - June 21, 2015 at 2:32 am
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Vicki Q - June 21, 2015 at 12:04 pm
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Minimalist - June 22, 2015 at 3:32 am
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Vicki Q - June 22, 2015 at 4:13 pm
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Mudhammam - June 24, 2015 at 8:06 am
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Vicki Q - June 24, 2015 at 10:37 am
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 21, 2015 at 7:06 am
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by vorlon13 - June 21, 2015 at 9:31 am
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by robvalue - June 21, 2015 at 11:25 am
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Randy Carson - June 22, 2015 at 7:52 pm
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Esquilax - June 23, 2015 at 7:25 pm
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Fidel_Castronaut - June 22, 2015 at 3:27 am
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Minimalist - June 22, 2015 at 4:17 pm
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Ravenshire - June 22, 2015 at 11:32 pm
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by popsthebuilder - June 23, 2015 at 7:16 pm
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by robvalue - June 24, 2015 at 1:25 am
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Vicki Q - June 24, 2015 at 10:39 am
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Randy Carson - June 24, 2015 at 7:06 pm
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Minimalist - June 23, 2015 at 7:47 pm
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Minimalist - June 24, 2015 at 11:07 am
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Mudhammam - June 24, 2015 at 5:59 pm
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by robvalue - June 24, 2015 at 11:48 am
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Vicki Q - June 25, 2015 at 4:21 pm
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by Pyrrho - June 24, 2015 at 7:18 pm
RE: Jesus' imperfect miracles. - by robvalue - June 25, 2015 at 4:29 pm

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