(June 24, 2015 at 11:48 am)robvalue Wrote: I believe originally he had Judas hand him over with his knowledge, which was later changed to Judas betraying him. Heard that somewhere. Probably should check that.
Yeeeeaaaahhhh, I would check that one before using it again.
Quote:Vicki: you're asking me why anyone would think jesus' death would accomplish anything? I have no idea. It makes no sense at all. But that's the story...
This.
C1 Judaism had no place for a dying Messiah. Whether you look at the Targum, Josephus or Qumran, that just didn't work. This hero of the people would free his people from the pagans, establish himself as king within God's Kingdom and bring in the return from exile- the new exodus.
No wonder the NT makes it clear the disciples didn't get their heads around it. Jesus death could mean no more than one more death under Roman occupation. Persuading people to follow a dead Messiah makes as much sense as starting a campaign to get JFK elected as the POTUS after Obama.
No sense at all...
...unless you allow in the idea that Jesus was in some way the embodiment of God. Then his death gets meaning as the ultimate sacrifice, which frees humanity. Then his resurrection makes sense because it's not breaking “The Rules Of Nature”, but following them. Then the rich and full historical record we have of what the Early Church said, actually makes sense.
