Hello, Anyone interested in a debate?

[bennyboy]

We are talking about the semantics of self, now, and throwing in an implied BOP to boot.

Ha ha!!  So you want me to just accept the existence of your imaginary friend without evidence and then to talk about the qualities of said imaginary friend?

Your opinions about my world view or moral sense are irrelevant to my process of making decisions.

You keep talking about the self referring to this implicitly external world view, as though it's a library that must be accessed and obeyed.  I contend that the world view is part of the self-- the will, ego, etc. are all intrinsically linked in a person.

Actually I gave explanation in both cases.  Throughout we have been arguing about the subject of morality.  In particular the determinate of morality.  Now you are saying the determinate is a world view a person has.  Now I am saying if the world view is the determinate is that world view subject to the person or is the person subject to the world view?

The world view is part of what it means to be a person. That's like asking if a computer is subject to a CPU, or a CPU is subject to a computer. You are setting up a false dilemma.

Ha ha!!  You really want to go with that argument?  Very well.  If conduct is perceived as moral by the actor in terms of their world view (which I take to mean a world view subject to our person) we are right back in the scenario of subjective morality where every action is moral and by which we act immorally to denigrate or punish such conduct.  Such a definition of morality is untenable.  Now if you perfer to argue that all actions are amoral than so be it; but be aware under such an argument the only constraint upon conduct becomes physical limitation.  Thus one may not say murder, rape, torture, or any other number of acts are immoral since conduct is not moral or immoral.

You keep saying simply that "everything is moral" if morality is subjective. That's fine, but you are deliberately conflating different moral contexts. Maybe a rapist thinks his ends are just, and his means are justified. However, there are millions of citizens whose moral ideas are different than his. They therefore act to limit or punish his behavior, which they consider immoral. An old woman might think her mangey three-legged mutt is the most beautiful thing in the world, but he's never going to win the dog show.

"Who says God can't exist?"

The general argument is that God does not exist because there is not sufficient "evidence".  To which application of the same general argument (you are not special pleading are you?) states our person does not exist nor does our world view exist for want of sufficient evidence.

Evidence only matters if you are trying to convince someone to adopt your view of reality. I don't care if you think I'm real, and I don't see much utility in making others prove they're real. The God idea, if I subscribe to it, will require me to alter my world view, and will affect my social relationships, my behavior, and my moral ideas. I don't intend to invest that kind of energy unless the God idea is shown to represent reality-- which it has not been, at least to my satisfaction.

I'm not compelled to apply the same standards of evidence to all ideas. I'm free to treat those I see as foolish prejudicially, and to hold bias in favor of those I see as sensible. The idea of self seems sensible to me because I wake up, remember my name, and begin to act according to my world view. The God idea seems foolish because it is based exclusively on testimonials by people I never met and have no reason to believe, in a text which contains logical contradictions and clear tall-tales.

This isn't special pleading-- it's not a plea at all. It's how people efficiently consider and discard ideas which pose a challenge to their existing world view. It's up to you to prove that your fairy tale isn't a fairy tale, because if you fail, I will continue on with my day perfectly unaffected. If it ever becomes absolutely necessary for me to prove the self of me exists, I will do it by pushing you and telling you your mother dresses you funny; the reality of my existence will immediately become obvious. Let God do the same, and there's nothing more to debate. But He won't, because he doesn't exist.