RE: Boy flees Mexico to avoid chemo due in part to religious beliefs.
June 24, 2009 at 6:21 pm
(This post was last modified: June 24, 2009 at 6:25 pm by Pippy.)
Hey all,
Wow. I try my best here, but I seem to be a huge flame magnet. I felt silly for adding my opinion to a long over discussion, but it seemed very important for me to disagree. Now this thread is screaming along again. I will try to not let this dissolve into the last experiance. I maintain that I want to healthily and honestly disscus things with you guys, it's fun. I don't want to convince, nor be convinced, remember?
I don't know where to start, but it seems like most of you had about the same complaints of my post. I admit too, and apologize for it being not as concise and polite as I would have liked. I fired it out in a blur because it is very saddening and frightening to me to see what you all were saying about this situation in question.
Hello again Padraic. I like you name, it makes me think we could have more in common than you would like to think. I am quite amused and apologetic that you think I sounded like a dictator in my musings. I guess in a sense I am secretly pleased to make your irony meter do that. I'm not saying that you guys shouldn't dissent from my point of view. If you thought so, you must have misunderstood. Or, just may be, I mean things that I don't even know, and you guys (with your monopoly on logical thought) should keep me well aware of my unknown intentions.
I make a distinction that you guys were all agreeing with the point of 'this kid should be taken away from his parents and irradiated against his will because everyone knows that that is obviously the right choice'. To me that is bitching in the highest, because although you are kind of allowed to have an opinion, it is very much none of you business. Before you read about it in the papers, you most likely had never heard of said child. I can almost assure myself none of you even know him. How dare you make declarations about he best choices for people you know nothing about? It is a matter of degrees, but I don't think you should talk and act like that, so I have to disagree (which is a cousin to, but removed from bitching).
I hear your point Padraic, but it is silly, and dangerous to me. I mean, think about it... You care about people under the age of majority, but not above (a strange and unhealthy distinction methinks). So as of now, you care deeply that this child be put through something he does not want to be put through, that can be described as not pleasant, because of his human potential? Would you campaign to help the poor kid until the eve of his 17th birthday, and than simply say, 'oh, your choice now'? I care about the child in question, and feel for his situation, but reserve his right to do what he wishes. Regardless of what I think he should do. That is why I don't feel like a dictator, and to me it is you all that are imposing your will on the situation. You argument involves taking children from their parents for fucks sake. All my disagreement was that it is none of your business, and fully the child and his parents choice. You can disagree, but no one has to care.
I can completley understand how you guys feel, but it is a hard and honest fact that kids die. We shouldn't try to fight kids dying. We should try to fight what makes kids sick. We should fight for the best quality of life, no matter how long for these people. Don't fear death, it impinges greatly on how much you appreciate and enjoy life.
And hello again Leo. You guys are champions of putting words in other peoples mouths (I'm not sure how that works digitally). I hear what you think, but I surely didn't intend to say what you heard at all. My point had nothing to do with unproven magical beings. In fact I did not mention god at all. Said only I, not to fear death. My morality that you think unwell of is not to tell other people to live that way I live. That leads me to make the moral descision not to try to think that this child (hypothetically) should do whatever I want. So it's funny when you guys see it as me being absurd, because believe me, it looks similar from over here too!
Hi also Adrian. I enjoy your points, and am happy to hear from you again.
To my question about whether or not I have the right to choose (in my own case) what to do about cancer, you said "Of course you do,". Thank you, that is all I ask for. You can belittle my point of view all day, as long as you don't try to say I can't have one (but you can).
Thank you for your time Adrian.
And Samson, greetings. I loved your post as well, you guys sure are good at this. I kind of jokingly agree with you second statement against the people governing us. But that first sentence! All I can say, is if we have to learn about the stupid "capital H holocaust" every year on repeat in school, we should at least learn not to talk like Nazis. I understand the want to sterilize some people, but we would never agree on who. But from a distance, any one who says others should be sterilized (or irradiated) because its your will is entertaining about the worst evil you can do from the comfort of your living room (aside from carrying it out). Not just stupid and rude, but dangerous and illogical. May I nominate people that think other should be sterilized for forced sterilization themselves? It was nice meeting you, though Samson.
There... God damn. I like talking to you guys, but it is like slogging through the mud. Now you all have permission (from dictator pip) to go off screaming and yelling about how I am an idiot. Please be sure to take everything I said as wrongly as possible. It helps to read my posts in a voice of a mental handicap, try it out loud if you must.
Thanks all, I am an asshole, but I am on the side of eternal love. Take care all, I mean it.
-Pip
Wow. I try my best here, but I seem to be a huge flame magnet. I felt silly for adding my opinion to a long over discussion, but it seemed very important for me to disagree. Now this thread is screaming along again. I will try to not let this dissolve into the last experiance. I maintain that I want to healthily and honestly disscus things with you guys, it's fun. I don't want to convince, nor be convinced, remember?
I don't know where to start, but it seems like most of you had about the same complaints of my post. I admit too, and apologize for it being not as concise and polite as I would have liked. I fired it out in a blur because it is very saddening and frightening to me to see what you all were saying about this situation in question.
Quote:My irony meter just shit itself.
Where on earth did you get the quaint notion we "should not" dissent,from YOUR values or those of the rest of the world? Or "should" have different values. Funny,I don't remember the news announcing you'd been made dictator.
I don't give a flying fuck what adults believe,or if they die off in their thousands due to their personal superstitions. BUT,I DO care about children under the age of legal majority being protected from the fatally stupid decisions of their parents
Hello again Padraic. I like you name, it makes me think we could have more in common than you would like to think. I am quite amused and apologetic that you think I sounded like a dictator in my musings. I guess in a sense I am secretly pleased to make your irony meter do that. I'm not saying that you guys shouldn't dissent from my point of view. If you thought so, you must have misunderstood. Or, just may be, I mean things that I don't even know, and you guys (with your monopoly on logical thought) should keep me well aware of my unknown intentions.
I make a distinction that you guys were all agreeing with the point of 'this kid should be taken away from his parents and irradiated against his will because everyone knows that that is obviously the right choice'. To me that is bitching in the highest, because although you are kind of allowed to have an opinion, it is very much none of you business. Before you read about it in the papers, you most likely had never heard of said child. I can almost assure myself none of you even know him. How dare you make declarations about he best choices for people you know nothing about? It is a matter of degrees, but I don't think you should talk and act like that, so I have to disagree (which is a cousin to, but removed from bitching).
I hear your point Padraic, but it is silly, and dangerous to me. I mean, think about it... You care about people under the age of majority, but not above (a strange and unhealthy distinction methinks). So as of now, you care deeply that this child be put through something he does not want to be put through, that can be described as not pleasant, because of his human potential? Would you campaign to help the poor kid until the eve of his 17th birthday, and than simply say, 'oh, your choice now'? I care about the child in question, and feel for his situation, but reserve his right to do what he wishes. Regardless of what I think he should do. That is why I don't feel like a dictator, and to me it is you all that are imposing your will on the situation. You argument involves taking children from their parents for fucks sake. All my disagreement was that it is none of your business, and fully the child and his parents choice. You can disagree, but no one has to care.
I can completley understand how you guys feel, but it is a hard and honest fact that kids die. We shouldn't try to fight kids dying. We should try to fight what makes kids sick. We should fight for the best quality of life, no matter how long for these people. Don't fear death, it impinges greatly on how much you appreciate and enjoy life.
Quote:Yes we are. If you are willing to let your kid unnecessarily get eaten alive by cancer because some unproven magical being might object you are an immoral sack of shit. If this is the best of the theistic value, than my values are a lot better than that of their god.
And hello again Leo. You guys are champions of putting words in other peoples mouths (I'm not sure how that works digitally). I hear what you think, but I surely didn't intend to say what you heard at all. My point had nothing to do with unproven magical beings. In fact I did not mention god at all. Said only I, not to fear death. My morality that you think unwell of is not to tell other people to live that way I live. That leads me to make the moral descision not to try to think that this child (hypothetically) should do whatever I want. So it's funny when you guys see it as me being absurd, because believe me, it looks similar from over here too!
Hi also Adrian. I enjoy your points, and am happy to hear from you again.
Quote:Have a nice funeral.Thank you. I am sure to attend, and looking forward to it. (the double entendres hurt)
Quote:Well yes, that's because it is extremely silly.I again ask not to be treated like you have a monopoly on rational thought. We have free will in this adventure, and although you can think I am being silly, you cannot declare with certainty that I am. You might just be incorrect in your assumption. It is Socrates, the first great thinker (what does that mean?) that reminds us to always readily admit what we don't know for sure, as it is true wisdom.
To my question about whether or not I have the right to choose (in my own case) what to do about cancer, you said "Of course you do,". Thank you, that is all I ask for. You can belittle my point of view all day, as long as you don't try to say I can't have one (but you can).
Quote:But next time you are at a busy crossing, remember you have given up on science, and don't look both ways before crossing. Take a leap of faith.That seems like part of a very strange definition of science. I don't know if 'look both ways before you cross the street' is a law of nature, or even a very good theory paper. All I can do at this sentence is shake my head and move on.
Quote:We are claiming that when a person is brainwashed and thinks that natural remedies will keep them alive when instead they will kill them, they should be treated with medicine that will save them.Another jewel! I can say that that is a beautiful turn of phrase to justify hurting a child that you don't even know. I can almost not bring myself to disagree with what you said, except what I realize (within a second) what it means.
Thank you for your time Adrian.
And Samson, greetings. I loved your post as well, you guys sure are good at this. I kind of jokingly agree with you second statement against the people governing us. But that first sentence! All I can say, is if we have to learn about the stupid "capital H holocaust" every year on repeat in school, we should at least learn not to talk like Nazis. I understand the want to sterilize some people, but we would never agree on who. But from a distance, any one who says others should be sterilized (or irradiated) because its your will is entertaining about the worst evil you can do from the comfort of your living room (aside from carrying it out). Not just stupid and rude, but dangerous and illogical. May I nominate people that think other should be sterilized for forced sterilization themselves? It was nice meeting you, though Samson.
There... God damn. I like talking to you guys, but it is like slogging through the mud. Now you all have permission (from dictator pip) to go off screaming and yelling about how I am an idiot. Please be sure to take everything I said as wrongly as possible. It helps to read my posts in a voice of a mental handicap, try it out loud if you must.
Thanks all, I am an asshole, but I am on the side of eternal love. Take care all, I mean it.
-Pip
