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Being cannot come from Non-being
#7
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being
(November 20, 2019 at 12:07 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote:
(November 20, 2019 at 12:01 pm)Otangelo Wrote: a cause outside of space-matter-time. Such a cause would not be subject to the law of decay and so would not have a beginning. That is, the cause had to be an eternal spirit.
The universe most probably had a beginning

The universe had a beginning, therefore a cause


1:15 The claim: Something cannot come from nothing does not need to be proven
3:15 Virtual particles do not come from absolutely nothing but require a quantum vacuum
7:36 Premise two: The universe began to exist
9:35 Scientific reasons to conclude that the universe has a beginning
16:32 Further scientific evidence why the universe cannot be past eternal
18:35 Philosophical reasons why the universe nor quantum effect potentials cannot be past eternal

Death of the eternal cosmos
From the cosmic egg to the infinite multiverse, every model of the universe has a beginning
[/url]

One shows that a problematic object called a naked singularity is a lot more likely to exist than previously assumed (see “Black strings expose the naked singularity”, right). The other suggests that the universe is not eternal, resurrecting the thorny question of how to kick-start the cosmos without the hand of a supernatural creator.
As cosmologist Alexander Vilenkin of Tufts University in Boston explained last week, that hope has been gradually fading and may now be dead. He showed that all these theories still demand a beginning.

 “It can’t possibly be eternal in the past,” says Vilenkin. “There must be some kind of boundary.” But Vilenkin found that this scenario falls prey to the same mathematical argument as eternal inflation: if your universe keeps getting bigger, it must have started somewhere. Late last year Vilenkin and graduate student Audrey Mithani showed that the egg could not have existed forever after all, as quantum instabilities would force it to collapse after a finite amount of time (arxiv.org/abs/1110.4096).

Arvin Borde, Alan Guth, and Alexander Vilenkin were able to prove that any universe which has, on average, been expanding throughout its history cannot be infinite in the past but must have a past space-time boundary. In 2012 Vilenkin showed that models which do not meet this one condition still fail for other reasons to avert the beginning of the universe. Vilenkin concluded, “None of these scenarios can actually be past-eternal.”[1] “All the evidence we have says that the universe had a beginning.” 
A.Vilenkin, cited in “Why physicists can't avoid a creation event,” by Lisa Grossman, New Scientist (January 11, 2012).

The Borde-Guth-Vilenkin theorem is independent of any physical description of that moment. Their theorem implies that even if our universe is just a tiny part of a so-called “multiverse” composed of many universes, the multiverse must have an absolute beginning. Vilenkin is blunt about the implications:
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. With the proof now in place, cosmologists can no longer hide behind the possibility of a past-eternal universe. There is no escape, they have to face the problem of a cosmic beginning 
(Many Worlds in One [New York: Hill and Wang, 2006], p.176).

Arno Penzias, Cosmos, Bios, and Theos: 
‘Astronomy leads us to a unique event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very delicate balance needed to provide exactly the right conditions required to permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say ‘supernatural’) plan.’

Margenau and Varghese eds, La Salle, IL, Open Court, 1992, p. 83
Mithani, and  Vilenkin: Did the universe have a beginning?:
At this point, it seems that the answer to this question is probably yes. Here we have addressed three scenarios which seemed to offer a way to avoid a beginning, and have found that none of them can actually be eternal in the past.
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1204.4658v1.pdf

The 2nd law of thermodynamics Refutes the Eternal Universe
The Second Law points to: (1) a beginning when, for the first time, the Universe was in a state where all energy was available for use; and (2) an end in the future when no more energy will be available (referred to by scientists as a “heat death”), thus causing the Universe to “die.” In other words, the Universe is like a giant watch that has been wound up, but that now is winding down. The conclusion to be drawn from the scientific data is inescapable—the Universe is not eternal. 


Philosophical reasons why the universe nor quantum effect potentials cannot be past eternal  
Imagine that you see dominoes falling, one knocking over the next, as this series of falling dominoes comes into your room. Like a person can never finish counting to infinity, an actual infinite number of dominoes could never finish falling. Therefore, if an actual infinite number of dominoes had to fall before getting to your door, then the falling dominoes would never reach your door. In the same way, if an actual infinite number of minutes had to take place before yesterday, time would have never reached yesterday, much less today. Therefore, just as there had to be a finite number of falling dominoes, there also had to be a finite—not infinite—amount of time before today. An infinite past is impossible. Time must have a beginning. And if time had a beginning it must have had a cause.
[url=http://stayontargetstayontarget.blogspot.com/2012/05/universe-caused-self-caused-or-uncaused.html]
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Messages In This Thread
Being cannot come from Non-being - by Otangelo - November 20, 2019 at 12:01 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Fake Messiah - November 20, 2019 at 12:07 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Otangelo - November 20, 2019 at 12:24 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Otangelo - November 20, 2019 at 12:25 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Brian37 - November 21, 2019 at 9:27 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Grand Nudger - November 20, 2019 at 12:10 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Deesse23 - November 20, 2019 at 12:16 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 20, 2019 at 12:19 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Otangelo - November 20, 2019 at 12:25 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Valkyrie - November 20, 2019 at 12:27 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Huggy Bear - January 1, 2020 at 5:01 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Paleophyte - January 1, 2020 at 5:35 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Huggy Bear - January 1, 2020 at 5:48 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by brewer - January 1, 2020 at 6:43 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Paleophyte - January 1, 2020 at 8:13 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Peebo-Thuhlu - January 1, 2020 at 5:59 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by LadyForCamus - January 1, 2020 at 7:14 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Nay_Sayer - January 1, 2020 at 7:19 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by LadyForCamus - January 1, 2020 at 7:23 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Huggy Bear - January 1, 2020 at 10:29 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Succubus - January 1, 2020 at 7:20 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Grand Nudger - November 20, 2019 at 12:32 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Otangelo - November 20, 2019 at 12:40 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by no one - November 20, 2019 at 12:47 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Grand Nudger - November 20, 2019 at 12:47 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Valkyrie - November 20, 2019 at 12:49 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Alex K - November 20, 2019 at 12:58 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Otangelo - November 20, 2019 at 1:51 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Alex K - November 21, 2019 at 8:41 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Sal - November 20, 2019 at 1:21 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by EgoDeath - November 20, 2019 at 1:21 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Peebo-Thuhlu - November 20, 2019 at 1:34 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 20, 2019 at 1:47 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Otangelo - November 20, 2019 at 1:51 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Sal - November 20, 2019 at 1:56 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Grand Nudger - November 20, 2019 at 2:00 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Otangelo - November 20, 2019 at 2:07 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Valkyrie - November 20, 2019 at 2:11 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Fake Messiah - November 20, 2019 at 2:13 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Grand Nudger - November 20, 2019 at 2:16 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Succubus - November 20, 2019 at 2:19 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Valkyrie - November 20, 2019 at 2:31 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Grand Nudger - November 20, 2019 at 2:20 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Valkyrie - November 20, 2019 at 2:23 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 20, 2019 at 2:28 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 20, 2019 at 2:34 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Otangelo - November 20, 2019 at 2:50 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Succubus - November 20, 2019 at 3:00 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Fake Messiah - November 20, 2019 at 3:01 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by downbeatplumb - November 20, 2019 at 3:04 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Fake Messiah - November 20, 2019 at 3:10 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Valkyrie - November 20, 2019 at 2:52 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Otangelo - November 20, 2019 at 3:00 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Valkyrie - November 20, 2019 at 3:02 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by downbeatplumb - November 20, 2019 at 3:00 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Grand Nudger - November 20, 2019 at 3:03 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Alex K - November 20, 2019 at 3:04 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by brewer - November 20, 2019 at 3:26 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by LastPoet - November 20, 2019 at 3:43 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Peebo-Thuhlu - November 20, 2019 at 4:07 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by zebo-the-fat - November 20, 2019 at 4:54 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Abaddon_ire - November 20, 2019 at 5:20 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by LastPoet - November 20, 2019 at 5:52 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Abaddon_ire - November 20, 2019 at 6:33 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Valkyrie - November 20, 2019 at 6:54 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Chad32 - November 20, 2019 at 6:46 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by chimp3 - November 20, 2019 at 8:10 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Grand Nudger - November 20, 2019 at 8:13 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by mordant - November 20, 2019 at 11:32 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Nay_Sayer - November 20, 2019 at 11:53 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Otangelo - November 21, 2019 at 8:29 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 21, 2019 at 9:08 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Nay_Sayer - November 21, 2019 at 12:49 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by downbeatplumb - November 21, 2019 at 3:21 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Otangelo - December 14, 2019 at 7:02 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Mr.wizard - December 14, 2019 at 11:13 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by downbeatplumb - November 21, 2019 at 3:21 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 21, 2019 at 8:34 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 21, 2019 at 9:03 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 21, 2019 at 9:19 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 21, 2019 at 9:58 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Mister Agenda - November 21, 2019 at 11:04 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Alex K - November 21, 2019 at 11:16 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 21, 2019 at 11:49 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Alex K - November 21, 2019 at 12:38 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 21, 2019 at 12:40 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Alex K - November 21, 2019 at 12:48 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 21, 2019 at 3:14 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 21, 2019 at 1:21 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Grand Nudger - November 21, 2019 at 1:45 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by GUBU - November 21, 2019 at 5:54 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Abaddon_ire - November 23, 2019 at 12:18 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by LastPoet - November 23, 2019 at 12:35 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Alex K - November 23, 2019 at 1:31 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by LastPoet - November 23, 2019 at 1:39 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 21, 2019 at 6:39 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by SteelCurtain - November 22, 2019 at 7:58 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Otangelo - December 14, 2019 at 6:12 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - December 14, 2019 at 6:24 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Mr.wizard - December 14, 2019 at 9:21 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Otangelo - December 14, 2019 at 9:57 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Otangelo - December 15, 2019 at 7:05 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Abaddon_ire - December 15, 2019 at 10:02 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Mr.wizard - December 15, 2019 at 1:39 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Paleophyte - December 15, 2019 at 8:24 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Otangelo - December 24, 2019 at 8:31 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Paleophyte - December 24, 2019 at 9:08 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Abaddon_ire - December 24, 2019 at 10:09 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Architect Of Fate - December 24, 2019 at 10:15 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Paleophyte - December 24, 2019 at 10:44 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Deesse23 - December 25, 2019 at 3:59 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Belacqua - December 25, 2019 at 4:42 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by GUBU - December 25, 2019 at 6:06 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by downbeatplumb - December 26, 2019 at 6:52 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Gawdzilla Sama - December 26, 2019 at 7:16 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Gawdzilla Sama - December 14, 2019 at 7:51 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Architect Of Fate - December 14, 2019 at 10:06 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Grand Nudger - December 15, 2019 at 7:15 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Grand Nudger - December 15, 2019 at 7:24 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - December 15, 2019 at 7:43 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Peebo-Thuhlu - December 15, 2019 at 5:23 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by no one - December 24, 2019 at 10:06 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by LastPoet - December 25, 2019 at 6:40 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Deesse23 - December 25, 2019 at 2:14 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Succubus - December 26, 2019 at 11:48 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Gawdzilla Sama - December 26, 2019 at 12:31 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Gawdzilla Sama - January 1, 2020 at 5:12 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Gawdzilla Sama - January 1, 2020 at 8:38 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Huggy Bear - January 3, 2020 at 1:13 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Paleophyte - January 1, 2020 at 10:02 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Grand Nudger - January 1, 2020 at 10:25 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Gawdzilla Sama - January 2, 2020 at 3:58 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Deesse23 - January 2, 2020 at 2:50 am
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Peebo-Thuhlu - January 2, 2020 at 3:22 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Huggy Bear - January 3, 2020 at 2:05 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by LastPoet - January 2, 2020 at 1:07 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Grand Nudger - January 3, 2020 at 2:10 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Huggy Bear - January 3, 2020 at 2:23 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Grand Nudger - January 3, 2020 at 2:29 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by LastPoet - January 4, 2020 at 10:52 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by Haipule - January 4, 2020 at 11:22 pm
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being - by The Grand Nudger - January 7, 2020 at 7:08 am

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