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God as a non-creator
#1
God as a non-creator
You have all seen (and will see more of them in future) topics desperately trying to distort science of evolution, genetics, archaeology, and whatnot, to fit God in somwhere.

So perhaps this topic is trying to meet theists half way there - so to speak.

Let me remind theists first that evolution does not equal atheism. It may debunk creator gods like Yahweh and Allah, and Jesus because his godliness depends on Adam's existence (but then it's not just evolution that is problematic, but also archaeology that shows there's no garden of Eden; genetics that shows there were never just two humans in the past, Google earth because we can't see the firewall around the forbidden tree, etc.) But there were other gods that were not considered creators like Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Sai Baba...

So if someone is honest in their search for God (as theists claim to be) then why not use science to find God instead of distorting, dismissing and ignoring science that debunks God that you want to believe in? After all there is no definition of God so he doesn't have to be a creator.

If science shows you some God is implausible then why not dump that God and try to find some other that could be scientifically plausible - or, put in other words, find some other god that science cannot debunk?
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#2
RE: God as a non-creator
(January 17, 2020 at 2:48 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: You have all seen (and will see more of them in future) topics desperately trying to distort science of evolution, genetics, archaeology, and whatnot, to fit God in somwhere.

So perhaps this topic is trying to meet theists half way there - so to speak.

Let me remind theists first that evolution does not equal atheism. It may debunk creator gods like Yahweh and Allah, and Jesus because his godliness depends on Adam's existence (but then it's not just evolution that is problematic, but also archaeology that shows there's no garden of Eden; genetics that shows there were never just two humans in the past, Google earth because we can't see the firewall around the forbidden tree, etc.) But there were other gods that were not considered creators like Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Sai Baba...

So if someone is honest in their search for God (as theists claim to be) then why not use science to find God instead of distorting, dismissing and ignoring science that debunks God that you want to believe in? After all there is no definition of God so he doesn't have to be a creator.

If science shows you some God is implausible then why not dump that God and try to find some other that could be scientifically plausible - or, put in other words, find some other god that science cannot debunk?

Better yet, the theists needs to consider that claims of supernatural beings are merely a reflection of our own species attributes, desires, narcissism? 

How about the theist consider their god belief is merely like a cat, dog or deer confusing a reflection in a mirror or glass as something separate than it's own reflection?
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#3
RE: God as a non-creator
You're forgetting the power of, "But, Muh Huly Buuk". The allure of eternal life, the promise of paradise and reuniting with long lost loved ones certainly conquers the notion and quells the fear that when you're dead, you are dead.
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#4
RE: God as a non-creator
First of all, science is not the property of non-believers. It's so sad to hear such speech; especially after knowing that modern Chemistry, the  "Algorithm" and the numerous discoveries such as "Alcohol" all came from the Islamic theist civilization.


That put aside:
Quote:So if someone is honest in their search for God (as theists claim to be) then why not use science to find God instead of distorting, dismissing and ignoring science that debunks God that you want to believe in? After all there is no definition of God so he doesn't have to be a creator.

If science shows you some God is implausible then why not dump that God and try to find some other that could be scientifically plausible - or, put in other words, find some other god that science cannot debunk?

Theists are human beings with brains that think, interpret, come up with theories, get bored, give commands, but most importantly: choose.

I choose -for example- to be a Muslim. Your idea of the universe "initiating itself" does not suit me. I find it childish, I find it...disgusting sometimes, when I look at the universe I come out with a different opinion than yours.

I don't believe what you believe. Sorry, but I find it...void. Empty..does not make sense.

So what's your problem with this ? I never write "Jihadi anti-theist keyboard Jihad" asking obsessively why people who believe different things actually believe in different things !

This obsessive behavior cause wars, death, and I saw enough of them. Don't start about Muslim vs Muslim killing; but start about Chinese communist killing of Muslims or Indian Hindu government killing Muslims for a change.

Grow up.
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#5
RE: God as a non-creator
Did any of those discoveries come from praying to the moongod?

Messiah has a point that can't be wished away by calling things disgusting, imagining what other people believe....that you don't, or whining that somebody is killing muslims somewhere.

It's a sad fact of contemporary belief that the people with the most vested interest in taking their god seriously will not or cannot do so. You've volunteered numerous examples of this on the board, and do so above as well. Did anyone ask you to imagine a void universe, or anything empty? No. You were asked whether or not you were capable of conceiving of a god that does not contradict facts. That does not need apology. A god that you would not sacrifice on the altar of a magic book. It didn't create us, because we weren't created, but it's still a god.

Can you do that....?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#6
RE: God as a non-creator
(January 18, 2020 at 1:14 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: Did any of those discoveries come from praying to the moongod?

Messiah has a point that can't be wished away by calling things disgusting, imagining what other people believe....that you don't, or whining that somebody is killing muslims somewhere.

It's a sad fact of contemporary belief that the people with the most vested interest in taking their god seriously will not or cannot do so.  You've volunteered numerous examples of this on the board, and do so above as well.  Did anyone ask you to imagine a void universe, or anything empty?  No.  You were asked whether or not you were capable of conceiving of a god that does not contradict facts.  That does not need apology.  A god that you would not sacrifice on the altar of a magic book.  It didn't create us, because we weren't created, but it's still a god.

Can you do that....?

Viewing other faiths as "a no-no" is a fact of life each and every human must take; it's called "personal opinion" and you're a hypocrite if you claim you don't view my faith -just like I view yours- a no-no.

You have your faith, I have mine, end of story. What comes next is me not killing you over it, and for you to do the exact same.

It's not a surprise; life is full of different opinions, thus we should collaborate to build something good, not escalate things leading each other to war over it.

Can you do that, too ?

And yes; non-believers claim that no God wanted to cover humanity with his mercy.
Non-believers ignore the question about "what was before" the big bang; theists say otherwise.

I believe in one of the claims about "the otherwise".
What's the big deal ?
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#7
RE: God as a non-creator
Quote:Non-believers ignore the question about "what was before" the big bang; theists say otherwise

It isn’t so much that we ‘ignore’ it, we simply recognize it as a non-sensical non-question.  It’s like asking ‘What colour is seventeen?’ or ‘How fast is Tuesday?’

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#8
RE: God as a non-creator
(January 18, 2020 at 2:04 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
Quote:Non-believers ignore the question about "what was before" the big bang; theists say otherwise

It isn’t so much that we ‘ignore’ it, we simply recognize it as a non-sensical non-question.  It’s like asking ‘What colour is seventeen?’ or ‘How fast is Tuesday?’

Boru

Something more advanced must have triggered the big bang -as I personally believe-.
We just can't understand what was behind due to our limited minds and methods.
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#9
RE: God as a non-creator
(January 18, 2020 at 2:48 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:
(January 18, 2020 at 2:04 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: It isn’t so much that we ‘ignore’ it, we simply recognize it as a non-sensical non-question.  It’s like asking ‘What colour is seventeen?’ or ‘How fast is Tuesday?’

Boru

Something more advanced must have triggered the big bang -as I personally believe-.
We just can't understand what was behind due to our limited minds and methods.

Your personal beliefs are immaterial. ‘Before the Big Bang’ is a nonsense phrase.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#10
RE: God as a non-creator
Looks like a hard no, you can't do that. You would prefer a god with fantasy attributes to a god that existed without them.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply



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