RE: God Became a Mirage
March 24, 2009 at 3:51 pm
(This post was last modified: March 24, 2009 at 4:10 pm by fr0d0.)
(March 24, 2009 at 3:32 pm)Edward Wrote:Yet this is exactly what the Bible tells us, fellow Christian.(March 23, 2009 at 6:08 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: No, he/she/it's outside it.
I don't think that's possible. It's necessary to maintain an idea of God that we Christians see God, but to say something is "outside" the universe is to adopt magical thinking. There can be no "outside" of the universe. That's called an absurdity (really it is, I'm not saying you're absurd in a derogatory way, that's what an impossible conclusion is called).
And to be fair, the idea of the universe having a beginning is also absurd. The Big Bang may be many things, but it wasn't the beginning of the universe.
God is other dimensional.
I don't agree with literal translation of Genesis. I like your idea of no beginning. I think it has mileage.
(March 24, 2009 at 1:29 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: If God existed he would have an effect on the universe...never mind creating it in the first place...so testing him would be within the boundaries of science - if not in practice then at least in principle.God creating the universe could be evidence of his existence. That's the claim.
(March 24, 2009 at 1:29 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: And if God did not create - and does not have any effect on - the universe....then how is he God or how exactly does he exist anyway? If he can't even effect anything? What we are talking about wouldn't really be God if he not only wasn't intervening but he didn't create the universe in the first place....and he doesn't even exist in a physical sense either..It's all a non question isn't it
(March 24, 2009 at 1:29 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: God is supposed to be a supernatural creator... creating the universe and intervening with it means he's within the field of science...Intervening in it would suggest effect yes. Like I'm postulating elsewhere, the nature of that intervention is it's non provability.
(March 24, 2009 at 1:29 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: Even if he doesn't exist as 'part' of the universe and he's 'outside it' - if he has and/or had any effect on it whatsoever...he's still within the realms of science...Science beyond our understanding maybe. Is that even a sensible suggestion though?
(March 24, 2009 at 1:29 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: How could he be outside the universe anyway? If he created it and the universe came from him...then wouldn't he and the universe be part of the same thing? Therefore he would STILL even then also be part of the universe and his existence is still in the realm of science...?It seems to follow that because God created the universe, he is both outside it and able to be in it too. It is inferior to him. The two aren't equal. (just thinking this through here with you)
(March 24, 2009 at 1:29 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: Even if he is 'outside of' the universe...I don't think it follows that he would be detectable. Scientific study of everything known and unknown is all study of God's handiwork. Ultimately indistinguishable to us because to us it's all natural.
But even if he's outside of the universe and his existence is not part of it so he's not within the field of science - if he has ANY effect on the universe and/or EVER did....(and he must do if he's God and he created it, never mind all the supposed intervening!) then he is effecting the natural universe and is part of the scientific field of study therefore.