RE: Does Atheism make sense?
January 14, 2012 at 5:38 pm
(This post was last modified: January 14, 2012 at 5:42 pm by TheDarkestOfAngels.)
(January 14, 2012 at 3:51 pm)organiccornflake Wrote: To the DarkestOfAngels: My counter-argument to your statement is within your statement. You don't have the right to deem that your morality is higher than god's, as in your godless universe there is no moral judge. Even the moral values that have you received from a christian-culture (assuming you live in europe or the Americas or certain places in africa.)
"Though shalt not murdur" means to kill without cause.
"Turn the other cheeck" is what jesus taught, as humans no longer have the right to dish out harsh judgment, as jesus took it all.
a few things:
1) Human morality (including things like our desire to remove murders from society) is not uniquely a christian concept, as the rule not only pre-dates christianity and judieism, but exists outside of what you call 'christian culture.' Therefore, those morals are neither uniquely christian nor the bilble's.
2) In a godless universe, my morality is my own. It is not dictated to be by another being, so if I have good morals, then that speaks well of me and not someone else. What gives me the right to deem that my morality is higher than god's morality is that my moral center is more indicative of the promotion and advancement of life and individual liberty of what you would call 'god's creation.'
That is to say that when god murders almost all life in the world in the story of Noah because he doesn't approve of just who was having babies with whom (we call that eugenics today), tells us about how its okay for Moses to take women and girl virgins as slaves, brides, or bride-slaves, or when Jesus tells us that we shouldn't love anyone (wife, mother, father, or whomever) as much as him, or anything like that, then by realizing that god doesn't even follow his own morals (thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, etc) then I can see my views of life is more indicative of the preservation and good will of of life, love, and liberty than his is and therefore I am a more moral person.
3) If human morality were dictated by god, then all people would have the exact same morals. Instead, there are very pious individuals and those who "sin" gratuitously. You can't even really claim free will in this case because god gives us morals and if god did not give us morals (according to the theist arguements to me) then we would all be sinners.
So god is clearly picking and choosing winners here and sentencing the loosers to eternal torture for having morals that god did not grant them.
4) "Though shalt not murdur" means to kill without cause.
All of the worst people in human history killed with cause. We wouldn't call them moral. Many of them were even christians (the crusades, for example, or the morality of christians in America calling for war on Muslims.) God's murders were little different in that respect.
So yes, for those reasons and more, I would say that most people, christian or not, have a more evolved sense of morality and justice than god does.
Therefore, I deem myself a higher moral authority than god because I read his book on morality and I find both him and it extremely amoral and NO ONE has copyrighted morality.
If today you can take a thing like evolution and make it a crime to teach in the public schools, tomorrow you can make it a crime to teach it in the private schools and next year you can make it a crime to teach it to the hustings or in the church. At the next session you may ban books and the newspapers...
Ignorance and fanaticism are ever busy and need feeding. Always feeding and gloating for more. Today it is the public school teachers; tomorrow the private. The next day the preachers and the lecturers, the magazines, the books, the newspapers. After a while, Your Honor, it is the setting of man against man and creed against creed until with flying banners and beating drums we are marching backward to the glorious ages of the sixteenth centry when bigots lighted fagots to burn the men who dared to bring any intelligence and enlightenment and culture to the human mind. ~Clarence Darrow, at the Scopes Monkey Trial, 1925
Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. ~Ronald Reagan
Ignorance and fanaticism are ever busy and need feeding. Always feeding and gloating for more. Today it is the public school teachers; tomorrow the private. The next day the preachers and the lecturers, the magazines, the books, the newspapers. After a while, Your Honor, it is the setting of man against man and creed against creed until with flying banners and beating drums we are marching backward to the glorious ages of the sixteenth centry when bigots lighted fagots to burn the men who dared to bring any intelligence and enlightenment and culture to the human mind. ~Clarence Darrow, at the Scopes Monkey Trial, 1925
Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. ~Ronald Reagan