(July 21, 2012 at 4:25 pm)Skepsis Wrote:As I already said, the two are linked. Without suffering there cannot be love. Without death there cannot be life. Without disasters there would not be life on earth. I've presented my case. You're dismissing mine without reason.(July 21, 2012 at 3:49 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: This reality without suffering is illogical.Why? There technically could exist a reality outside suffering, if you delve into what a God is capable of.
(July 21, 2012 at 4:25 pm)Skepsis Wrote:And that is a logically bankrupt statement for the reasons already offered.Quote:Same as a loving God creating beings to love him without suffering is illogical.Seems to me a loving God creating any suffering in the first place is the more illogical of the two.
(July 21, 2012 at 4:25 pm)Skepsis Wrote:The infinite love of god is towards us, is what you're addressing if you're addressing my God. You seem to be mis-applying the attribute. God's creation is this reality. That includes all the suffering and death. This god you address is a straw man of your own creation, and doesn't resemble mine.Quote: Neither (love or suffering) can exist alone. They're interdependent.No, I don't think so, but I won't bother to take the time to prove it.
Like I said, infinite love and any degree od suffering are contradictive, regardless of whether or not they must come as a pair in reality. Your point in null because a perfectly loving creator would rather avoid creation altogether rather than create something that is destined, rather, by your interpretation, necessarily, subject to suffering that is often times needless and unavoidable.
(July 21, 2012 at 4:25 pm)Skepsis Wrote:Quote: So only a loving God would create this reality.Dafaq?
How, even if I granted you every single point you made, did you get to the statement you made above?
A malevolent God could have made the universe by your same criterion, because good and evil must coexist. The love, in this case, would simply be a byproduct.
You are really going to have a hard time justifying this point.
I've justified it many times. God is the potential that is the creation. The positive force as it had to be to create. Evil is the opposing force that would resist God. A malevolent God, in this construct, is an impossibility. This would have to be a lesser entity, as a destructive force couldn't have created anything. It needs something already created so that it has something to destroy.