A challenge about women and marriage in Islam

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So would it not be simpler just to outlaw sex with 9 year olds? There are a lot more adults who want to sexually abuse 9 year olds out there than there are 9 year olds wanting to have sex, I'm guessing.

Would it not be simpler just to stop voting for presidents in the united states, and to just allow a despot to take care of everything however he or she wills it? Of course it would be... but should we do everything because it is simple... or would that oversimplifying things?

I would have thought, rather, that there aren't a lot more adults who want to sexually *abuse* a nine year old than there are 9 year olds wanting to have sex. Even in BDSM, I wouldn't say that doms/masters necessarily want to abuse their sub/slave... most of them still want their partner(s) to enjoy the what they take.

You're looking at the subset of the population that gets off on *hurting* people, only some of which happens to intersect with pedophilia. I mean... a guess is a guess, do you happen to have any data to suggest that what you're saying is true?

[quoteThe options are basically put in place a law which allows men to marry 9 year olds which has been proven to also give men much more of an opportunity to abuse 9 year olds, this is for the benefit of who? Those horny 9 year olds that people on this forum seem to believe exist who are mature and adult enough to have sex and give birth perfectly fine.[/quote]

And marriage isn't in general proven to give people much more of an opportunity to abuse their fellows? I don't buy that this specific example is indicative of anything different than what marriage typically consists of. For every example you cited of abuse of a 9 year old in marriage, there is an example of the same done to a 20 year old, a thirty year old, a forty year old, and more.

Binding two people together legally, socio-politically, financially, familially, and physically will always be a strain.

And paul, you can have sex without getting preggo. I know, because I do it all the time! (and if I had a proper set of ovaries, I would use condoms and birth control, and if we have a case of some severe stupidity or bad luck: abortion exists). I've told you this before, and I'll tell you it again: the only thing stopping nine year olds from fucking each other... is their parents/teachers/guardians and the like. And it's not even about getting pregnant (usually): it's about satisfying the desires of their bodies

But don't tell me I'm arguing for nine year olds giving birth... I've said that some of them clearly can, but I've never backed off from saying that they probably shouldn't.

Or do you think just maybe it might be that sex offenders who want to have sex with 9 year olds whether they are willing or not would benefit more from this law?

Depends on the person, and whether they are a sex offender, or only branded as such because of the illegality of having sex with a 9 year old. If the latter, it would be very beneficial for them indeed, and for the 9 year old with them too. If the former... then *they are still going to jail* regardless of the new legality.

Is the argument actually that I'm being unfair in supporting a law because it forces 9 year olds to not have sex even if they want it?

I don't know, are you blind, or just obtuse?

9 year olds *do* have sex... but it's usually with someone accessible, who they are 'close' with. Often this is something like their 'best friend', a pet, a sibling/cousin about the same age, a teacher, an aunt/uncle or close family friend, and more rarely, a parent. Seriously, if they want it, and their guardians deem it as 'safe': they should certainly be allowed to go for it (other party willing, of course).

Remember this isn't about whether or not some 9 year olds should have sex it's about whether an adult man should legally be able to marry a 9 year old girl.

Noooo, you don't say?

How about an adult woman legally being able to marry a 9 year old boy? Is that different?

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Also, if the child refuse. This is usually disgraces the family's name. The child is then ostracized from their family or even killed. And, most children at this age barely understand the concept of sex. I also do not see the child not being rape in some societies for denying sex.

Welcome to coercion 101, where we teach Dragonetti all about coercion. I wonder if he'll learn anything, or if he'll say more silly things.

And if the child is killed, that's typically breaking the law, and the killer(s) go away for a good while

I also do not see a woman not being raped in some societies for denying sex. Can't argue with arguments like that, mang.

The child is treated as property, as the groom usually has to pay the bride's father. No one should be treated as property, female or male.

All said and done. This is fucked up!

Well that's no different than usual, then: children are property... with a few, ahhh, usage restrictions. Yup, nobody should raise children.

Yeah, I'll say that their system of it is pretty grody. Infact, it's pretty grody when they do this with adult women too. And men, if they're a little feisty. Why peeps insist on judging the systems a culture uses only within its cultural context is beyond me... but maybe they're just simple

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Correct, and with dowry... This is called human trafficking.

Because Islam is totally to blame for that, amiright?

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You say beating happens in western countries, it doesn't happen within the law.

Soooo... when are you going to illustrate to us that beating can suddenly happen within the law if an adult marries a child?