(October 21, 2013 at 6:34 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: It has a beginning, it has an end and this stuff happens/developments in the middle. This is certainly one massive event that is currently occurring right now.
So, first of all, it's not accurate to say that the big bang constitutes a beginning of the universe, since we don't know what was going on before it, and since it literally was just an expansion of space into its current state. Calling that a beginning is entirely dishonest when you don't know what came before it.
Second of all, since we don't know what will happen after the end, calling that a literal ending is a similarly unjustified leap of logic so you can desperately cling to your similarly unjustified beliefs.
Third of all, you're committing what's known as a fallacy of composition, when you assume that what's true of a part of the universe- temporal things require a beginning- is true of the whole of the universe, and this fallacy is being committed on multiple levels. It really is a complete failure of logic, Sword: considering the universe as a whole, there's no reason to assume that beyond its borders it is submersed in linear time like all the things within it are. You don't know what the fuck is beyond the expanding borders of our universe; it could very well be that time runs backwards out there, obviating the need for a cause at all. Also, given that everything we know about sufficiently large objects tells us that gravity does some weird things to reality, including space and time, the fact that you're assuming that the largest possible thing in our universe wouldn't be the same, just shows how desperate you were to reach your preferred conclusion.
And, as has been pointed out to you, even accepting every premise, your argument only gets us to deism, and not even to active or conscious deism, not to christianity, so you've failed anyway.
Got anything real?
Quote:So you can see that makes more sense than the universe "just existing" you have some kind of set-up there that makes sense.
And an argument from incredulity will get you nowhere, by the way.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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