(March 31, 2015 at 10:04 pm)Pyrrho Wrote:(March 31, 2015 at 9:47 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Then you need to delete the standard of "objective" from the OP and admit that you are willing to accept the subjective bullshit of believers in its place.
I am not.
I am saying that the exact same standards of evidence apply, whether we are discussing Jesus, Homer, or any other ancient person. Typically, all one has in these sorts of cases is testimony of other people. If you dismiss all testimony as irrelevant, you will have trouble establishing the existence of anyone from 2000 years ago or earlier. Somehow, though, I think you will agree that some people existed at that time...
My guess is that you have not been paying attention to my posts in this thread, or you would have observed me saying that I do not believe Jesus ever existed.
That's really one of the points I've been trying to make. The word of someone who actually witnessed an event is going to be much more valid and valuable than claims made by someone who wasn't there and has no means of actually knowing what happened. In the case of Jesus, we have no contemporary eyewitnesses, absolutely nobody actually saw Jesus or heard what he had to supposedly say. At best, these are second or third hand sources. Why should we accept that they actually knew anything about what they were saying, just because there are so many people with a vested emotional interest in believing Jesus was real?
There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide mankind that cannot be achieved as well or better through secular means.
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