RE: Objective evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ?
April 1, 2015 at 1:49 am
(This post was last modified: April 1, 2015 at 2:00 am by Cephus.)
(March 31, 2015 at 11:33 pm)Nestor Wrote: When you look at what constitutes our historical understanding of other figures based on written testimony, Josephus, Tacitus and dozens of various Christian works, all within 100 years of the supposed events, some within 20 years, it doesn't look that bad to me.
Except we know that Josephus never wrote what theists claim he wrote, it was an early Christian attempt at forgery. Not a single copy of Jewish Antiquities that existed from the time of Josephus contained that passage. Josephus wasn't a Christian work, he was a Jew and remained that way until his death. You'd think that if he had written what is recorded in Jewish Antiquities, he'd have converted but there's no reason to think he ever did. Tacitus never even wrote about Jesus, at best he wrote about people who followed the teachings of Jesus. That's why these accounts are so laughable, they're just reporting about popular mythology of the day, repeating things they heard, which is not evidence of anything. Tacitus wasn't a Christian either, he was writing a letter to Nero, complaining about the terrible things that Christians were doing in the name of their leader.
That's the problem, all of these supposed "accounts" have been thoroughly debunked. Clearly you have never bothered to examine any of them, instead just pulling them off some apologist website, because if you had spent 10 seconds examining them, there's no way you'd find any of them credible.
(April 1, 2015 at 1:02 am)robvalue Wrote: Spot on. People can lie for any number of reasons. It falls under the "die for a lie" fallacy, yet even more so.
Especially if they never intended the book to be non-fiction in the first place. How do we know they weren't just writing a story? It sounds way more like a story than a serious account. Richard Carrier commented that the style of writing in the gospels is what you would expect from myth making; story telling.
It isn't that people can lie, it's that people can be honestly mistaken. We know that people of that era were not operating skeptically as we do today. There are all kinds of "historical" writings that include accounts of sea serpents and magic and gods. Jesus wasn't the only messiah people believed in back then. There were "saviors" on every street corner in Jerusalem, many of which became popular. We actually do know that early Christians went back and destroyed accounts of other religious leaders so they wouldn't compete with their version.
The whole of the Bible is written in largely mythic language, Joseph Campbell was pointing this out back in the 70s and 80s. This is nothing new, there are just a lot of people with a strong emotional desire to believe that it's true at any cost.
There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide mankind that cannot be achieved as well or better through secular means.
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