Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: May 21, 2024, 7:40 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Objective evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ?
RE: Objective evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ?
(April 4, 2015 at 9:44 pm)Minimalist Wrote: <sigh>   Let me try this a different way.  Not too long ago I saw a special in which some bozo with a divinity degree insisted that "the one thing we know from history is that jesus was baptised by John the baptist."  How would you evaluate that statement?  There is no more evidence...and certainly no more reliable evidence...for that statement than there is for any of the other jesus bullshit.  The bible is a Rohrschact Test.  People see in it whatever the hell they want to see in it.  I do not consider that evidence.
We simply disagree. That overstatement about "the one thing we from history" is propaganda. Instead, I would just say, it's more likely than not that Jesus was a follower of John the Baptist. 
Quote:Simply not true, as regards the first statement, depending on who you are talking about.  One of the christards favorites on that is Caesar and another is Alexander the Great.  With Caesar we have his own writings, the writings of Cicero and Sallust (one a friend one an enemy), inscriptions, coins, statues, the poems of Catullus (who died in 54 BC while Caesar was still cleaning the mud of Gaul off his boots) Lucan's Pharsalia, Vergil's Aeneid, and the writings of Augustus himself.  Jesus has nothing matching that. 
We wouldn't expect an obscure, poor Jewish teacher from a small unknown village to be mentioned at all. So what we have is pretty remarkable. When do the manuscripts we possess for those other figures date? They're far removed from the originals, are they not? 


Quote: If you bring a document to a Xerox machine and run off 500 copies are you going to pretend that increases the veracity of your original by 500%?  There is one original story: GMark.  The rest are expansions of the original and revised for varying audiences.
Huh? That doesn't even make sense. Multiple copies reveal what changes the text went through over the centuries. In nearly 1,500 years prior to the printing press, they didn't go through that much. And your claim that they're nothing but expansions is just that, a claim. They could have just as easily used other sources besides Mark.
Quote:So, you might be able to ferret out certain "facts" from the bible.... facts which are known from other sources.  P. Sulpicius Quirinius was named Imperial Legate of Syria in 6 AD.  That's in Josephus.  So is the fact that Pilate was prefect of Judaea.  Philo confirms that.  But we have coins minted by Pilate and the other prefects to tell us that story, too.  We don't need the bible for that.  
We can still infer certain facts before corroborating data is unearthed, like Pilate, whom some once also doubted was a historical figure (and unlike Jesus, he was publicly known).
 
Quote:Consider A Tale of Two Cities:  Paris is a city in France.  There was a revolution in which the nobility was guillotined in a public square.  England was not supportive of the revolutionaries.  London is a city in England.  Ships regularly crossed the channel between the two countries.  But the main characters in the book are all fictional and you cannot find historical facts about fictional characters.  Caesar was not fictional.  Neither was Alexander. 
Are there multiple sources attesting to the events surrounding Charles Darnay? Did his trial specifically influence the course of Western history? Nope. 
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: Objective evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ? - by Mudhammam - April 5, 2015 at 10:28 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Dear Atheists: what would convince you God/Christ is Real? JJoseph 207 12002 February 12, 2024 at 1:51 am
Last Post: Goosebump
  The Historical Evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. Nishant Xavier 38 2593 August 7, 2023 at 10:24 pm
Last Post: LinuxGal
  When were the Gospels Written? The External and Internal Evidence. Nishant Xavier 62 3473 August 6, 2023 at 10:25 pm
Last Post: LinuxGal
  Veridical NDEs: Evidence/Proof of the Soul and the After-Life? Nishant Xavier 32 1753 August 6, 2023 at 5:36 pm
Last Post: LinuxGal
  Isaiah 53, 700 B.C: Historical Evidence of the Divine Omniscience. Nishant Xavier 91 4981 August 6, 2023 at 2:19 pm
Last Post: LinuxGal
  Conscience and the Moral Argument as Evidence for the Goodness of God. Nishant Xavier 162 8382 July 9, 2023 at 7:53 am
Last Post: Deesse23
  Signature in the Cell: DNA as Evidence for Design, beside Nature's Laws/Fine-Tuning. Nishant Xavier 54 2963 July 8, 2023 at 8:23 am
Last Post: Fake Messiah
  Do atheists believe in the existence of friendship? KerimF 191 10725 June 9, 2023 at 3:32 pm
Last Post: Mister Agenda
  What is the worst religion in existence? Hi600 89 6546 May 6, 2023 at 12:55 pm
Last Post: BrianSoddingBoru4
  Atheists, if God doesnt exist, then explain why Keanu Reeves looks like Jesus Christ Frakki 9 1072 April 1, 2023 at 4:07 am
Last Post: Goosebump



Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)