Jesus did not rise from the dead -- My debate opening statement.

[Drich]

Oh, really!  Are you truly serious?!!!  Are you saying that if some early Church Father (say, Irenaeus) had referenced a passage from Josephus that mentioned Jesus but was not among the known surviving works of Josephus that scholars are in possession of today, you would not cite that as evidence for the historical Jesus?

No retardus.. I said nothing of the sort. I am point out Josephus would be a minor is not completely insignificant source, MEANING his literary works would not have needed to cataloged and accounted for. Why? Because it is plausible that someone like Irenaaus of Gaul was old enough to be a member of a church who contained member old enough to witness or experience Christ or the apsotles themselves. therefore Josephus' tertiary account would have little hold or meaning when you/he had access to a actual first hand witness wouldn't you say?

Drich, your "scholarship" (if it can be called that) is beyond poor.  Just curious, do you believe that the Earth and/or Cosmos are less than 10,000 years old?  If so, I have nothing further to say to you; your beliefs are equivalent to someone who believes that the South won the Civil War.

what a narrow world view you have. It's one or the other huh? Can't reason or fathom anything past what you've been taught?

Let me tell you what I believe. I believe there is no time line set in the bible from the last Day of Creation, to the expulsion of Adam and Eve form the garden. I also believe while the Garden was built on the third day I was built and acted like a preserve of the future (Meaning it was a complete picture of what the world was like 6000 years ago, even if the rest of the world had to "yet evolve.")

This simply means no matter how old you douche bags claim the earth is... God's Creation Account when properly read (mean do not add an artificial time line into what was written) can assimilate whatever science has to say about the age of this earth. It also answers the questions of where did the city come from Cain fled to? who did Adam and Eve's Children marry.

We can go much deeper if you like.

P.S.  The early Church fathers referenced and quoted a number of authors and/or writings outside of the New Testament, which was not even formed until the mid-4th century, over 300 years after the death of Jesus.

So???

Or was that supposed to be some 'new revelation' that was supposed to shock me?

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Drich, your "scholarship" (if it can be called that) is beyond poor.  Just curious, do you believe that the Earth and/or Cosmos are less than 10,000 years old?  If so, I have nothing further to say to you; your beliefs are equivalent to someone who believes that the South won the Civil War.

Oh my, you haven't had the benefit of Drich's views on Genesis, have you? 

Short version: Earth/cosmos older than 10,000 years . . . evolution not necessarily disputed . . . "monkey-man" pre-Garden-of-Eden, followed by literal Adam and Eve (true, spirit-endowed humans) . . . etc.

It's a magnificent mess and a fine example of what happens when people really take the Bible to be true and then needlessly contort themselves to make it "fit" with what science has found. On this issue, Drich seems to be a church of one. In any case, I've never come across anyone with a similar take on the question.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

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Oh my, you haven't had the benefit of Drich's views on Genesis, have you? 

Short version: Earth/cosmos older than 10,000 years . . . evolution not necessarily disputed . . . "monkey-man" pre-Garden-of-Eden, followed by literal Adam and Eve (true, spirit-endowed humans) . . . etc.

It's a magnificent mess and a fine example of what happens when people really take the Bible to be true and then needlessly contort themselves to make it "fit" with what science has found. On this issue, Drich seems to be a church of one. In any case, I've never come across anyone with a similar take on the question.

Our species, Homo sapiens sapiens, did not descend from 2 individuals:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve

The bible never claims that it does. It simply makes a point in saying we are sons of Adam.

Again in my narrative I point out the Genesis 1,2,3,4 are central garden narratives. Meaning if you were sat in the middle of the garden and told to record this is what you would see. It does not mean life outside the garden worked the same way. In fact we know it didn't as God told Adam and Eve of all the struggles they would face outside the garden.

Again the garden was a perserve, meaning it was kept apart from the rest of the natural world. Natural world meaning evolved world. a world where man/you descendants share a line with monkeys. We are told in the garden When God created Adam and Eve he breathed a living soul into them. That is the difference between those in the garden and those who 'evolved' outside the garden.

So then how does everyone have a soul?

Hmmm..


Only if there was a great bottle neck in human history when just about everyone dies, expect those with souls...

Do you see? Not everyone is descendant from two people, but at the same time are all share a soul/can be called sons of Adam.