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RE: Jesus did not rise from the dead -- My debate opening statement.
January 13, 2017 at 11:47 am
(January 12, 2017 at 10:37 pm)Jehanne Wrote: (January 12, 2017 at 11:01 am)Drich Wrote: How do you know he didn't mention Jesus more?
Such a mention would have to be in those portions of his works that did not survive into the modern era; however, no such quotes exist among the pre-Nicene Church fathers that allude to such "missing quotations", which means that the only references from Josephus about Jesus are the ones that are available today. In any case, it is clear that Josephus was clearly unimpressed with Jesus and his so-called "miracles", just as he was unimpressed with the so-called Roman and Jewish miracle-workers.
Pre-Nicene Church Fathers?!?!?! ARe you f-ing kidding???
Pre-Nicene Church Father= So like 2nd century church leadership didn't say anything about Josephus???
1) do we have a complete record of the 2nd church fathers had to say about Josephus???
2) More importantly what would second century church Fathers have have a need for Josephus if some of them could still remember Christ themselves???
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RE: Jesus did not rise from the dead -- My debate opening statement.
January 13, 2017 at 12:18 pm
We have what we have.... and what we have is sufficient to establish that jesus is a load of shit.
BTW, what we "have" is largely the result of xtian scribes maintaining it so if they fucked up it is your fault, not ours.
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RE: Jesus did not rise from the dead -- My debate opening statement.
January 13, 2017 at 3:55 pm
Did I miss something, or is Drich actually appealing to sources that we -don't- have? Ala...."how do we know there isn't a lost book that totally demonstrates my position?"
I think, that at the point where you're hoping a book that doesn't exist might give some position credence...you've explicitly acknowledged that it's a completely vacuous position in the first place.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Jesus did not rise from the dead -- My debate opening statement.
January 13, 2017 at 9:55 pm
(This post was last modified: January 13, 2017 at 9:59 pm by Jehanne.)
(January 13, 2017 at 11:47 am)Drich Wrote: (January 12, 2017 at 10:37 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Such a mention would have to be in those portions of his works that did not survive into the modern era; however, no such quotes exist among the pre-Nicene Church fathers that allude to such "missing quotations", which means that the only references from Josephus about Jesus are the ones that are available today. In any case, it is clear that Josephus was clearly unimpressed with Jesus and his so-called "miracles", just as he was unimpressed with the so-called Roman and Jewish miracle-workers.
Pre-Nicene Church Fathers?!?!?! ARe you f-ing kidding???
Pre-Nicene Church Father= So like 2nd century church leadership didn't say anything about Josephus???
1) do we have a complete record of the 2nd church fathers had to say about Josephus???
2) More importantly what would second century church Fathers have have a need for Josephus if some of them could still remember Christ themselves???
Oh, really! Are you truly serious?!!! Are you saying that if some early Church Father (say, Irenaeus) had referenced a passage from Josephus that mentioned Jesus but was not among the known surviving works of Josephus that scholars are in possession of today, you would not cite that as evidence for the historical Jesus?
Drich, your "scholarship" (if it can be called that) is beyond poor. Just curious, do you believe that the Earth and/or Cosmos are less than 10,000 years old? If so, I have nothing further to say to you; your beliefs are equivalent to someone who believes that the South won the Civil War.
P.S. The early Church fathers referenced and quoted a number of authors and/or writings outside of the New Testament, which was not even formed until the mid-4th century, over 300 years after the death of Jesus.
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RE: Jesus did not rise from the dead -- My debate opening statement.
January 13, 2017 at 10:57 pm
Quote:Did I miss something, or is Drich actually appealing to sources that we -don't- have?
To be fair Bart Ehrman did the same thing in Did Jesus Exist. And the difference between a scholar like Ehrman and a moron like dripshit is vast and impassable.
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RE: Jesus did not rise from the dead -- My debate opening statement.
January 14, 2017 at 8:28 am
(This post was last modified: January 14, 2017 at 8:28 am by Crossless2.0.)
(January 13, 2017 at 9:55 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Drich, your "scholarship" (if it can be called that) is beyond poor. Just curious, do you believe that the Earth and/or Cosmos are less than 10,000 years old? If so, I have nothing further to say to you; your beliefs are equivalent to someone who believes that the South won the Civil War.
Oh my, you haven't had the benefit of Drich's views on Genesis, have you? 
Short version: Earth/cosmos older than 10,000 years . . . evolution not necessarily disputed . . . "monkey-man" pre-Garden-of-Eden, followed by literal Adam and Eve (true, spirit-endowed humans) . . . etc.
It's a magnificent mess and a fine example of what happens when people really take the Bible to be true and then needlessly contort themselves to make it "fit" with what science has found. On this issue, Drich seems to be a church of one. In any case, I've never come across anyone with a similar take on the question.
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RE: Jesus did not rise from the dead -- My debate opening statement.
January 14, 2017 at 9:49 am
(January 14, 2017 at 8:28 am)Crossless1 Wrote: (January 13, 2017 at 9:55 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Drich, your "scholarship" (if it can be called that) is beyond poor. Just curious, do you believe that the Earth and/or Cosmos are less than 10,000 years old? If so, I have nothing further to say to you; your beliefs are equivalent to someone who believes that the South won the Civil War.
Oh my, you haven't had the benefit of Drich's views on Genesis, have you?
Short version: Earth/cosmos older than 10,000 years . . . evolution not necessarily disputed . . . "monkey-man" pre-Garden-of-Eden, followed by literal Adam and Eve (true, spirit-endowed humans) . . . etc.
It's a magnificent mess and a fine example of what happens when people really take the Bible to be true and then needlessly contort themselves to make it "fit" with what science has found. On this issue, Drich seems to be a church of one. In any case, I've never come across anyone with a similar take on the question.
Our species, Homo sapiens sapiens, did not descend from 2 individuals:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve
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RE: Jesus did not rise from the dead -- My debate opening statement.
January 14, 2017 at 10:43 am
(This post was last modified: January 14, 2017 at 10:50 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Right, but you're a human being, a monkey man -without- a soul. Drich and his are another type of animal, apparently. The soulified ones are the ones descended from a dirtman and a ribgirl, not you and I. Still trying to figure out how god managed not to kill us all off in that little rainstorm he engineered. I don't recall any of our species being on the cargo manifest of the SS Jehovah.
(by the by, for all the shit you -could- give drich on the subject, the notion that the human beings in the garden were not the same as the rest of the fuckers outside the garden is absolutely biblical and foundational to the created and chosen race schtick being peddled by it's authors)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Jesus did not rise from the dead -- My debate opening statement.
January 14, 2017 at 1:47 pm
(January 14, 2017 at 9:49 am)Jehanne Wrote: (January 14, 2017 at 8:28 am)Crossless1 Wrote: Oh my, you haven't had the benefit of Drich's views on Genesis, have you?
Short version: Earth/cosmos older than 10,000 years . . . evolution not necessarily disputed . . . "monkey-man" pre-Garden-of-Eden, followed by literal Adam and Eve (true, spirit-endowed humans) . . . etc.
It's a magnificent mess and a fine example of what happens when people really take the Bible to be true and then needlessly contort themselves to make it "fit" with what science has found. On this issue, Drich seems to be a church of one. In any case, I've never come across anyone with a similar take on the question.
Our species, Homo sapiens sapiens, did not descend from 2 individuals:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve
I seriously hope you didn't post that link for my benefit. Lol.
For that matter, I hope you didn't post it for Drich's sake -- unless you are prepared to go down the exegetical rabbit hole with him for the next 40 pages.
I gave at the fucking office.
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RE: Jesus did not rise from the dead -- My debate opening statement.
January 14, 2017 at 4:13 pm
(January 14, 2017 at 1:47 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: (January 14, 2017 at 9:49 am)Jehanne Wrote: Our species, Homo sapiens sapiens, did not descend from 2 individuals:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve
I seriously hope you didn't post that link for my benefit. Lol.
For that matter, I hope you didn't post it for Drich's sake -- unless you are prepared to go down the exegetical rabbit hole with him for the next 40 pages.
I gave at the fucking office.
Christian Biblical literalism has been falsified; it is time for that portion of the human race that had embraced that fantasy, either through birth, the result of marriage or intellectual laziness and other shortcomings to move on.
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