(February 14, 2017 at 5:10 pm)SteveII Wrote:(February 14, 2017 at 3:15 pm)Aroura Wrote:
a. no it isn't, it's overly complicated and only raises more difficult questions.
b. no it isn't, it's overly complicated and only raises more difficult questions.
c. no it isn't, it's overly complicated and only raises more difficult questions.
d. no it isn't, it's overly complicated and only raises more difficult questions.
e. no it isn't, it's overly complicated and only raises more difficult questions.
Determinism is not a philosophical position any more than atheism is. I just don't believe in it, as there is no scientific evidence it exists. I'm an a-free-will-ist.
You assert it exists, much like God, so it's on you to show me evidence that it does. You also assert there is something aside from the natural, so that's on you too.
Show me evidence of a choice made that was not affected by prior causes, ever, in all of human history. Go ahead, I'll just wait right here........
Determinism is a doctrine that stems from a metaphysical naturalism worldview--there only exists material properties and causes. This is most definitely a philosophical position.
Your question: "Show me evidence of a choice made that was not affected by prior causes, ever, in all of human history." does nothing to undermine the argument of Free Will. Of course every choice is informed by our past...and our present. The question remains do we have a choice to act.
I think the best evidence is the mind/brain relationship. What evidence does neuroscience provide that the mind is identical to our brain, and therefore material?
Not everything that goes on in our mind is causally determined by our bodies. Sometime what goes on in our bodies is a result of what goes on in our mind. I am choosing to reply to you and do the necessary chores of getting sentences down on the screen. We have mental-to-physical causation. The explanation of both the choice I made and the physical events going on in my body is for the purpose of defending my position. A purposeful explanation is a teleological explanation and a teleological explanation is not a deterministic one.
Secondly, electrodes can be used to stimulate the brain to do different things (make a noise, raise a hand, etc.). However the patient always says something like "I didn't do that, you did that". There is no place that can be stimulated to cause a patient to decide to do something.
Lastly, while there is a causal dependency of the mind events on the brain events, you cannot confuse correlation with identity. It does not follow that if two events are correlated, that they are identical.
Everything that goes on in your mind may not be caused by the body, but it caused by something. You think you are "choosing" to reply to me, but it is just output based on input.
Everthying we have observed is caused (or perhaps random), but in the macro world, caused. You don't get to insert magic if you cannot find the exact cause. This is just God of the Gaps inserted into the free-will argument.
You have demonstrating nothing but weak arguments based on presuppositions that are themselves unproven (Duality of Mind is BS, and presupposed the supernatural to explain the mind: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism_(p...y_of_mind)) for free-will, no evidence, and not even strong logical arguments. Show me evidence for the supernatural, now. Every statement you make is just based on one more unsupported claim.
“Eternity is a terrible thought. I mean, where's it going to end?”
― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead
― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead
