RE: Objective morality as a proper basic belief
June 25, 2017 at 10:43 pm
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2017 at 10:45 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(June 25, 2017 at 10:35 pm)Astonished Wrote: Like talking to a child, I swear.Okay?
Quote:You challenged my assertion that there were objective statements about humanity having a sense of self-preservation and instincts to that effect. My hyperbolic example had the desired effect of getting you to admit that it held water. You have a hard time separating objective facts from objective concepts, which is the problem here, I think. The PRINCIPLE of wanting to maximize well-being and minimize suffering is an objective metric we can strive for but MORALITY is based on the actions we take that either have a net positive or net negative (or potentially zero) impact. The framework of well-being is easily defined and doesn't allow for extraneous crap like the well-being of our imaginary friends.Actually, I challenged your assertion that there can be no objective morality, but if some brilliant trap was laid...I'm not seeing it? You seem to be able to provide not only objective facts about our health..but also objective facts that could form the justification for an objective moral fact of the matter.
Net positive, neutral, or negative effect with respect to what? Well being, right?
Quote:Don't bullshit me about your objective moral propositions having nothing to do with religion, religious morality, or beliefs revolving around that, the fact that I have repeatedly debunked the notion of there being any objective morality (in a religions context or otherwise; but why would anyone bother arguing it outside of a religious context anyway? Unless they wanted to look stupid for the attention) over and over in this thread alone shows me that you're either failing to comprehend something very simple or just being obstinate.You can't debunk a secular objective morality by commenting on religious moral absolutism. That's not how that works, that's not what that word means. Wondering about my motives tells us what? That you have suspicions? Lay them on the table, they'll be easy to confirm or deny...lol.
Quote:Well-being is grounded in objectively determined, empirical evidence, so as I have said, religious belief belongs nowhere near that whether or not it pretends to give a fuck about maximizing well-being and minimizing harm while simultaneously promoting slavery and denouncing free thought and rationality. Religion needs to stop being allowed to elbow itself into the table of good ideas and pretend it's not completely out of place there.Why are you still talking about religion? I'm talking about well-being grounded in objectively determined, empirical evidence.
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