(September 8, 2008 at 6:50 am)Tiberius Wrote:(September 8, 2008 at 6:01 am)Ace Wrote: I am a strong atheist. I cannot know there is no god but I can say that I'm certain.Surely that is a contradiction? What I also don't get concerning you and strong atheists is that you yourself convinced me that atheism wasn't a belief, but a disbelief.
Your discussion at Richard Dawkins' site led me to this post which clearly states strong atheism as a belief. Not wanting to bring up any previous arguments, but could you verify your position for me? It seems that you do not wish to say you have a "belief" but you align yourself with strong atheism, which as far as most atheists seem to be concerned, is a belief.
Strong atheists are just like weak atheists. It's just, Instead of being on the state where you just don't know, as a strong atheist you are certain but acknowledge that you cannot know.
It's not a belief. There's no claim. It's a strong position opposite from theistic claims.
Strong atheist is just a stronger position of atheists. No one from the atheistic point is claiming anything. Burden of proof is on the one making the claim, that being the theist. Atheists simply dismiss the claim, So it doesn't really matter how strong of an atheist you are. We all on the same level. Stonger atheist is just someone who is more convinved that there is no god.
There is a level which richard used to describe your position. 1 stating that you claim to know there's a god, That your 100% sure, as in you KNOW there's a god which this is claiming. 2- which states that you strongly believe in god but acknowledge that you cannot know, but you are certain. being certain leave's a tiny gap where you acknowledge that you cannot know and that you could be wrong.
5- is a state where you don't believe in god but far from certain. This is the position where your leaning towards atheism.
6- is a state where you are an atheist, Your not certain/sure that there is no god so you cannot be seen as a strong atheist. This is a weak atheist position.
7- is a state where you are certain that there is no god BUT you acknowledge that you do not know and cannot know for sure. This is a strong atheists position.
8- is a state where you KNOW there is no god. This is claiming. This is being absalutly sure of yourself that there is no god, that you know. This is claiming.
I am on level 7. I'm certain but acknowledge that I do not know for sure.
You can be certain there's no god but you cannot know there is no god.
I'm not claiming anything. So it does not make it a belief. I just don't believe the theist claims, I'm simply showing strong certainty of that.
Understand? This is also a debate that took place on richard dawkins site. You can be certain, but you cannot know.
When you say you know, your claiming! So yer, I'm one level below this one. I'm not claiming anything, I'm just certain that there's no god. At the same time I acknowledge that I do not know for sure.
There is a differance between certain and knowing.
I'm certain but I do not know for sure. FutureAndAHope is claiming to know there is a god. I'm on the certainty level that his claims are wrong.
See?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
