RE: The benefits of being christian. Where are there???
December 25, 2017 at 5:25 pm
(This post was last modified: December 25, 2017 at 5:26 pm by vulcanlogician.)
(December 25, 2017 at 3:50 pm)Starhunter Wrote: What you are saying is that critical thinking is a way of defining what already is discovered and agreed on, in other words it is trying to state m the obvious...
No, that's not how I define critical thinking. Consider Galileo-- when he was trying to prove the sun-centered model of the universe. It was in no way agreed upon at the time-- the prevalent opinion was that the Earth was at the center of the universe. Keep in mind, Galileo did not come up with the heliocentric model himself; that honor falls upon Copernicus.
Galileo used a ton of critical thinking to demonstrate that the heliocentric model was the most plausible. He made observations of astronomical objects (like Jupiter and its moons) which he used to make his case that the old earth-centered model was incorrect. It's one thing to use a telescope to look at celestial objects-- it's quite another to take a whole bunch of observations, think about the implications of what is observed, and use that thought process to prove that the sun is in the center of the solar system.
In third grade, we are shown a model of the solar system in school, and we are plainly told how all the planets are situated. It's easy to forget how "in the dark" folks like Galileo were and how much effort it took just to figure out all the stuff that he did.
So-- no-- critical thinking is not a way of defining what is already discovered and agreed on. Nor is it exclusively coming up with brand new ideas. It is a method of determining the viability of competing models (as per Galileo, who did not invent the Copernican model but rather proved it). Oftentimes, one who is the actual discoverer of a new idea/model will also prove it as well-- but the "coming up with" is not essential to the process of determining plausibility. The ability to critically examine competing ideas, that's where the gold is.
(December 25, 2017 at 3:50 pm)Starhunter Wrote: ...which is fine with me, but when it tries to define the mysteries of the universe it better shut up because the conclusions are pure garbage, and I am thinking about the guessing that's going on in what they would like to call science. Anyway, that's another page, or book rather, to write about.
Go back to my Galileo example. Galileo was "trying to define the mysteries of the universe" with his critical thinking. And guess what? He did a damn fine job.
You forget that how the solar system was arranged was a mystery to people in Galileo's time. Just like other things are a mystery today. Critical thinking has solved many, many mysteries. And it will continue to solve more. It's not a perfect process, but it has given us antibiotics, computers, satellites, and many other things we take for granted.
Starhunter Wrote:All had contemplated suicide for most of their lives. But the most damaged child, figured out that it is better to surrender to Christ than to death.
I would have to agree that "surrender to a supernatural being" is better than suicide in most cases. (I have to draw the line at, say, joining a murderous cult, but generally I agree with you.) But I think you are creating a false dichotomy. Even if faith is a viable way to emerge whole on the other side of a hardship, it's not the only way. And who is to say it's the best way? Even if it is effective, it's got a whole lot of baggage chained to it.
Furthermore, I don't know if you are drawing from anecdotal evidence or not, but there is no way for any of us to know what the "most damaged child is" or if she has survived to tell her story. You may read an article about someone who has survived the unfathomable, but think about how many articles weren't written, because the victim didn't survive. But even if you just look at what has been documented-- it's enough to make you cry. Families where the stepfather brutally rapes a daughter. The daughter goes to the mother for help and is shunned for accusing the stepfather. This stuff has happened and continues to happen. This child not only had to continue to endure the regular abuses of her stepparent, but also the rejection of her own mother. Assuming that a child in that predicament commits suicide... IMO... she was given more than she could handle.
Sure, faith might get a person through difficulties like that. And if it does, then faith has some value. I don't deny this. But I don't assume that faith is a magic pill to resolve all such situations. In fact, I'd rather rely on outreach programs and education of school guidance counselors, etc, than put any stock in faith whose powers you have grossly overstated.