RE: Philosophical zombies
March 2, 2018 at 10:58 am
(This post was last modified: March 2, 2018 at 11:04 am by Edwardo Piet.)
"The sort of consciousness Dennett describes".... isn't consciousness. That's the problem.
Now I'm not saying that consciousness isn't multiple drafts or isn't the fame in the brain. I think it is. I think that's the part where he actually makes sense.
But when he talks of consciousness being an illusion and us being zombies... that makes no sense whatosever. Zombies aren't conscious, we are conscious. Consciousness is first person, not third person. Consciousness can't be an illusion because seeming to seem is seeming.... and he pretends like there isn't really any seeming to us it just seems like there is. Which makes absolute zero sense. For something to seem to seem to us seeming has to exist!
And the irony of it all is that the entirety of science is dependent on the reality of consciousness and science ultimately only ever studies the conscious experience of reality and not reality itself. And yet he calls the very experience that scientists have when they study the reality he gets all his evidence from 'an illusion'. If consciousness is an illusion then reality as we know it is an illusion. They key part being as we know it.
He redefines free will and he redefines consciousness. He very much engages what Kant correctly called a "wretched subterfuge". He's good at talking about facts.... now he just needs to use those facts to actually address what he's supposed to be talking about... and draw correct conclusions rather than non-sequiturs. And if he can't do that, he needs to stop pretending he can.
And philosophical zombies are very possible... but we are NOT zombies. And THE only thing we know 100% for an absolute fact besides tautologies is: We are not zombies. Other people might be zombies.... but each of us who is conscious, knows that they are conscious.
Physicalism and monism are both true. Philosophical zombies very much can exist... and we can't possibly be zombies. That is, I know I can't at least. And if you are conscious you know you can't be a zombie either. Perhaps other people are zombies, but it's a long shot right?
But yes, they are very possible. Consciousness is a useless epiphenomenon that need not have evolved.
Now I'm not saying that consciousness isn't multiple drafts or isn't the fame in the brain. I think it is. I think that's the part where he actually makes sense.
But when he talks of consciousness being an illusion and us being zombies... that makes no sense whatosever. Zombies aren't conscious, we are conscious. Consciousness is first person, not third person. Consciousness can't be an illusion because seeming to seem is seeming.... and he pretends like there isn't really any seeming to us it just seems like there is. Which makes absolute zero sense. For something to seem to seem to us seeming has to exist!
And the irony of it all is that the entirety of science is dependent on the reality of consciousness and science ultimately only ever studies the conscious experience of reality and not reality itself. And yet he calls the very experience that scientists have when they study the reality he gets all his evidence from 'an illusion'. If consciousness is an illusion then reality as we know it is an illusion. They key part being as we know it.
He redefines free will and he redefines consciousness. He very much engages what Kant correctly called a "wretched subterfuge". He's good at talking about facts.... now he just needs to use those facts to actually address what he's supposed to be talking about... and draw correct conclusions rather than non-sequiturs. And if he can't do that, he needs to stop pretending he can.
And philosophical zombies are very possible... but we are NOT zombies. And THE only thing we know 100% for an absolute fact besides tautologies is: We are not zombies. Other people might be zombies.... but each of us who is conscious, knows that they are conscious.
(March 2, 2018 at 3:35 am)Grandizer Wrote: So if physicalism/monism is true, philosophical zombies cannot exist ... or we are all philosophical zombies.
Physicalism and monism are both true. Philosophical zombies very much can exist... and we can't possibly be zombies. That is, I know I can't at least. And if you are conscious you know you can't be a zombie either. Perhaps other people are zombies, but it's a long shot right?
But yes, they are very possible. Consciousness is a useless epiphenomenon that need not have evolved.
