Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: April 28, 2024, 7:03 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Philosophical zombies
#98
RE: Philosophical zombies
I am completely on the side of Hammy on this one.

The “Looks like a duck” argument that says a physical system that behaves conscious must actually be conscious totally begs the question. Implicit in the argument is an already conscious knowing subject interpreting the behavior of a physical system and assigning it meaning. It’s no different than assigning numerical meaning to abacus beads. When we manipulate the beads manually according to an algorithm they are still just dead wood. They have no meaning in themselves. Likewise, electronic switches and lights have no meaning other than what they get assigned by a knowing subject. And by logical extension, the activity of neurons, firing and not firing, also have no inherent meaning. Yes, they correlate with mental properties. But beads and switches can also correlate with their assigned meanings. As such I see no justification for claiming that the brain, as a physical mechanism, does anything more that produce signs awaiting interpretation by a knowing subject. Signs themselves have no essential properties in common with the things they signify.


I think David Bentely Hart states the issue well...


"Computational models of the mind would make sense if what a computer actually does could be characterized as an elementary version of what the mind does, or at least as something remotely like thinking. In fact, though, there is not even a useful analogy to be drawn here. A computer does not even really compute. We compute, using it as a tool. We can set a program in motion to calculate the square root of pi, but the stream of digits that will appear on the screen will have mathematical content only because of our intentions, and because we—not the computer—are running algorithms. The computer, in itself, as an object or a series of physical events, does not contain or produce any symbols at all; its operations are not determined by any semantic content but only by binary sequences that mean nothing in themselves. The visible figures that appear on the computer’s screen are only the electronic traces of sets of binary correlates, and they serve as symbols only when we represent them as such, and assign them intelligible significances. The computer could just as well be programmed so that it would respond to the request for the square root of pi with the result ‘Rupert Bear’; nor would it be wrong to do so, because an ensemble of merely material components and purely physical events can be neither wrong nor right about anything—in fact, it cannot be about anything at all. Software no more ‘thinks’ than a minute hand knows the time or the printed word ‘pelican’ knows what a pelican is."

– David Bentley Hart
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 2, 2018 at 3:22 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Grandizer - March 2, 2018 at 3:35 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Neo-Scholastic - March 2, 2018 at 10:48 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 2, 2018 at 3:46 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 2, 2018 at 4:37 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by purplepurpose - March 2, 2018 at 4:56 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by LadyForCamus - March 2, 2018 at 10:03 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by purplepurpose - March 2, 2018 at 10:40 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 9:13 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Neo-Scholastic - March 2, 2018 at 10:36 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 11:38 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by bennyboy - March 3, 2018 at 8:03 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 3, 2018 at 9:10 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by LadyForCamus - March 3, 2018 at 9:54 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 9:30 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 10:20 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 11:47 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by rskovride - March 2, 2018 at 10:39 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 2, 2018 at 11:07 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by rskovride - March 2, 2018 at 11:46 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 10:48 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 10:49 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 10:58 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Amarok - March 2, 2018 at 11:06 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 11:13 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 11:54 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 2, 2018 at 11:19 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 11:51 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 11:54 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 12:26 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 12:38 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 12:47 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 12:53 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 1:07 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 1:14 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 1:19 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 12:04 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 12:18 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Minimalist - March 2, 2018 at 12:10 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 1:04 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Neo-Scholastic - March 2, 2018 at 12:13 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 12:29 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 12:45 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 12:50 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 12:58 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 12:42 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 12:48 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 12:57 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 1:03 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 1:08 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 1:18 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 1:27 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 1:37 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 1:46 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 2:11 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 1:09 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 1:19 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 1:29 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 1:35 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 2:10 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 3, 2018 at 3:54 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 3, 2018 at 5:49 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 2:13 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 2, 2018 at 2:18 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 3, 2018 at 4:05 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 3, 2018 at 4:13 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 3, 2018 at 5:33 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 4, 2018 at 12:16 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 4, 2018 at 12:18 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Angrboda - March 4, 2018 at 3:31 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by LadyForCamus - March 3, 2018 at 5:34 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 3, 2018 at 5:37 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by LadyForCamus - March 3, 2018 at 5:46 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 3, 2018 at 6:00 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 3, 2018 at 6:17 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 3, 2018 at 8:42 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by bennyboy - March 4, 2018 at 10:10 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 4, 2018 at 12:05 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by LadyForCamus - March 4, 2018 at 12:17 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Angrboda - March 4, 2018 at 12:18 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 4, 2018 at 12:54 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 4, 2018 at 6:48 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 4, 2018 at 10:22 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by WinterHold - March 4, 2018 at 10:07 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 4, 2018 at 2:49 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by bennyboy - March 4, 2018 at 6:46 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 5, 2018 at 12:05 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by bennyboy - March 5, 2018 at 9:09 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Amarok - March 5, 2018 at 12:16 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 5, 2018 at 12:24 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 5, 2018 at 2:22 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by WinterHold - March 5, 2018 at 4:30 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 5, 2018 at 5:43 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by WinterHold - March 5, 2018 at 8:16 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Foxaèr - March 5, 2018 at 9:11 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 5, 2018 at 10:29 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 5, 2018 at 11:05 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 5, 2018 at 1:15 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 6, 2018 at 1:47 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 5, 2018 at 11:52 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 5, 2018 at 8:14 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 5, 2018 at 8:18 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 5, 2018 at 10:09 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Neo-Scholastic - March 5, 2018 at 10:58 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 6, 2018 at 8:38 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 7, 2018 at 2:54 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 7, 2018 at 3:58 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Neo-Scholastic - March 5, 2018 at 12:39 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by RoadRunner79 - March 5, 2018 at 1:56 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 5, 2018 at 1:08 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Amarok - March 5, 2018 at 1:15 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 5, 2018 at 1:24 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Amarok - March 5, 2018 at 1:36 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by bennyboy - March 5, 2018 at 1:52 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 6, 2018 at 2:11 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by bennyboy - March 6, 2018 at 5:38 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 7, 2018 at 8:57 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 6, 2018 at 9:02 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 6, 2018 at 9:39 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by emjay - March 6, 2018 at 12:22 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 6, 2018 at 12:51 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by emjay - March 6, 2018 at 1:08 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 6, 2018 at 1:11 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by emjay - March 6, 2018 at 2:06 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 6, 2018 at 2:37 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 6, 2018 at 4:29 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by emjay - March 6, 2018 at 5:05 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 7, 2018 at 8:38 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 7, 2018 at 8:58 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Foxaèr - March 7, 2018 at 9:02 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 7, 2018 at 9:06 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 7, 2018 at 10:13 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Video thread for interesting philosophical discussions on YouTube and elsewhere GrandizerII 2 309 August 26, 2020 at 8:43 am
Last Post: GrandizerII
  The Philosophy of Mind: Zombies, "radical emergence" and evidence of non-experiential Edwardo Piet 82 12046 April 29, 2018 at 1:57 am
Last Post: bennyboy
  A Philosophical Conundrum BrianSoddingBoru4 11 1753 October 27, 2017 at 9:23 pm
Last Post: ignoramus
  Philosophical zombie. robybar 3 1619 June 8, 2017 at 8:21 am
Last Post: bennyboy
  Philosophical ideas and acting "as though" bennyboy 12 2107 March 31, 2017 at 11:15 am
Last Post: henryp
  What philosophical evidence is there against believing in non-physical entities? joseph_ 150 12657 September 3, 2016 at 11:26 am
Last Post: downbeatplumb
  Arguments for God from a purely philosophical perspective Aegon 13 2887 January 24, 2016 at 2:44 am
Last Post: robvalue
  A Great Philosophical Question. Pyrrho 26 6550 September 28, 2015 at 11:31 am
Last Post: Pyrrho
  One philosophical argument for existence of supernatural. Mystic 59 15799 July 20, 2015 at 10:01 pm
Last Post: Cato
  Philosophical Underpinnings for Rejecting God learncritic 28 8946 June 1, 2015 at 10:26 pm
Last Post: ignoramus



Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)