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Philosophical zombies
RE: Philosophical zombies
(March 5, 2018 at 5:43 am)robvalue Wrote:
(March 5, 2018 at 4:30 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: I would look at the results of their logic. The question for me is "in which context" should I judge that the result is complete or not?
Is death the end, or is the continues advent of generations is the context; i.e a never ending context?

Are we living a result inflicted by the past generations? That means that the conditions are not so alien to the results.
But to answer you; a zombie is that person producing the wrong results. I need to observe the results of their actions first, then decide.

Can you give any examples here of what two people do/say under your supervision, and how you come to your conclusion? I have no idea what you mean by "wrong results". People get things wrong all the time, and are illogical all the time. What do you mean, "is death the end"? Are you saying you'd ask people that question? Am I a zombie because I think it is indeed the end?
An example can be of two siblings, one chooses to follow the family code while the other rebels and find their own way.
The first sibling will follow the stereotype because it's easier and requires less thinking, to reach the result: that is happiness and prospering.
The second sibling will follow their own norm, because their logic saw something else, to reach the result: that is happiness and prospering.
Both have the same equipment from the get go (a brain-a body).  Death is the end of their attempt to be happy and to prosper.
For an observer from the outside; it's not wise to keep the sight focused at the two siblings. were their choices affected by external conditions? here; the condition pop in as a second possible cause of the zombie state.
Wrong results are when the choice leads to something negative, something totally unintended.
Zombies -on the top of not having the right logic to pick the right path-, tend to repeat the historical disasters and mistakes of others just to escape the thinking process that they're not capable of.
Not learning from "wrong results" is a first indication that suggests to me, that someone is brain dead.

Quote:Let's say my physical body is replicated exactly. The resultant brain has all my knowledge and works exactly the same as my brain. It's not an imposter as such, it is just me, minus whatever "consciousness" is supposed to be. It will produce the same results as me under examination, unless you can somehow find a way to measure "how conscious" each one is. How do you tell the difference?

Here comes the "conditions". Every action we do is interacting with the physical world we live in. Our bodies are also a part of that physical world. The conditions will affect the results greatly.

You in a warzone, will act so differently than you floating in a space ship. In one scenario your body is angry, in the other it's overjoyed.

I will judge the results depending on the condition: if it's a warzone, and somebody freaks out, I'll call them a coward.
                                                                         if it's a flight in space and somebody freaks out, I'll call them "He's/She's just new to this"

Both are results, both were produced by the same brain, but the judgement varied greatly between the two.


Quote:My answer is that this doesn't make sense. If it's a copy of me, it's as conscious as I am. Consciousness is a direct result of my physical brain: that is what all evidence points to. Otherwise, my consciousness/essence is some other entity, which exists on some other plane which we can't ever access. But if we can't access it, how can we conclude it exists at all?

For all I know, everyone else could be zombies, or some of them, or none of them. I can't think of any way I can tell the difference.

Evidence points to nowhere actually in terms of consciousness; science doesn't have a clue why we're "awake".
https://www.sciencealert.com/harvard-sci...sciousness

Harvard "thinks" it pinpinted a neurological network that is crucial to it; but this is not the generator of consciousness or where it springs from. It's just "thought to be important for it".

If we couldn't decide which path is wrong and which is right; atheism would work better than religious thought. My belief in Islam is pointing me that God is the controller of the conditions.
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Messages In This Thread
Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 2, 2018 at 3:22 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Grandizer - March 2, 2018 at 3:35 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Neo-Scholastic - March 2, 2018 at 10:48 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 2, 2018 at 3:46 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 2, 2018 at 4:37 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by purplepurpose - March 2, 2018 at 4:56 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by LadyForCamus - March 2, 2018 at 10:03 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by purplepurpose - March 2, 2018 at 10:40 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 9:13 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Neo-Scholastic - March 2, 2018 at 10:36 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 11:38 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by bennyboy - March 3, 2018 at 8:03 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 3, 2018 at 9:10 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by LadyForCamus - March 3, 2018 at 9:54 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 9:30 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 10:20 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 11:47 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by rskovride - March 2, 2018 at 10:39 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 2, 2018 at 11:07 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by rskovride - March 2, 2018 at 11:46 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 10:48 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 10:49 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 10:58 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Amarok - March 2, 2018 at 11:06 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 11:13 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 11:54 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 2, 2018 at 11:19 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 11:51 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 11:54 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 12:26 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 12:38 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 12:47 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 12:53 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 1:07 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 1:14 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 1:19 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 12:04 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 12:18 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Minimalist - March 2, 2018 at 12:10 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 1:04 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Neo-Scholastic - March 2, 2018 at 12:13 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 12:29 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 12:45 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 12:50 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 12:58 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 12:42 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 12:48 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 12:57 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 1:03 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 1:08 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 1:18 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 1:27 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 1:37 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 1:46 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 2:11 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 1:09 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 1:19 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 1:29 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 1:35 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 2:10 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 3, 2018 at 3:54 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 3, 2018 at 5:49 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 2:13 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 2, 2018 at 2:18 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 3, 2018 at 4:05 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 3, 2018 at 4:13 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 3, 2018 at 5:33 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 4, 2018 at 12:16 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 4, 2018 at 12:18 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Angrboda - March 4, 2018 at 3:31 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by LadyForCamus - March 3, 2018 at 5:34 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 3, 2018 at 5:37 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by LadyForCamus - March 3, 2018 at 5:46 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 3, 2018 at 6:00 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 3, 2018 at 6:17 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 3, 2018 at 8:42 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by bennyboy - March 4, 2018 at 10:10 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 4, 2018 at 12:05 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by LadyForCamus - March 4, 2018 at 12:17 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Angrboda - March 4, 2018 at 12:18 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 4, 2018 at 12:54 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 4, 2018 at 6:48 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 4, 2018 at 10:22 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by WinterHold - March 4, 2018 at 10:07 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 4, 2018 at 2:49 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by bennyboy - March 4, 2018 at 6:46 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 5, 2018 at 12:05 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by bennyboy - March 5, 2018 at 9:09 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Amarok - March 5, 2018 at 12:16 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 5, 2018 at 12:24 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 5, 2018 at 2:22 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by WinterHold - March 5, 2018 at 4:30 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 5, 2018 at 5:43 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by WinterHold - March 5, 2018 at 8:16 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Foxaèr - March 5, 2018 at 9:11 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 5, 2018 at 10:29 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 5, 2018 at 11:05 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 5, 2018 at 1:15 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 6, 2018 at 1:47 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 5, 2018 at 11:52 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 5, 2018 at 8:14 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 5, 2018 at 8:18 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 5, 2018 at 10:09 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Neo-Scholastic - March 5, 2018 at 10:58 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 6, 2018 at 8:38 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 7, 2018 at 2:54 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 7, 2018 at 3:58 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Neo-Scholastic - March 5, 2018 at 12:39 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by RoadRunner79 - March 5, 2018 at 1:56 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 5, 2018 at 1:08 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Amarok - March 5, 2018 at 1:15 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 5, 2018 at 1:24 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Amarok - March 5, 2018 at 1:36 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by bennyboy - March 5, 2018 at 1:52 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 6, 2018 at 2:11 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by bennyboy - March 6, 2018 at 5:38 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 7, 2018 at 8:57 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 6, 2018 at 9:02 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 6, 2018 at 9:39 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by emjay - March 6, 2018 at 12:22 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 6, 2018 at 12:51 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by emjay - March 6, 2018 at 1:08 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 6, 2018 at 1:11 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by emjay - March 6, 2018 at 2:06 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 6, 2018 at 2:37 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 6, 2018 at 4:29 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by emjay - March 6, 2018 at 5:05 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 7, 2018 at 8:38 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 7, 2018 at 8:58 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Foxaèr - March 7, 2018 at 9:02 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 7, 2018 at 9:06 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 7, 2018 at 10:13 am

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