Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: May 3, 2024, 4:11 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
White liberals are the true racists
#56
RE: White liberals are the true racists
(October 22, 2018 at 4:20 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote:
(October 22, 2018 at 3:01 pm)Dr H Wrote: For some definitions of "liberal".

Are you going to explain what you mean or just leave it at that?
If it requires explanation, sure.

70-90 years ago or so, there were liberal and conservative democrats and liberal and conservative republicans.  Liberals in the 1930s & 1940s tended to be associated with labor movements, and consequently with Marxists.  By the 1950s and the "red scare", though, they have started to become more of the "soft" left; having a nodding acquaintance with Marxist theory, but avoiding direct association with communism.  Revolutionary ideas were gradually replaced with the idea of manipulating the system from within, and not so much by subversion, as through regular participation.   "Liberal" essentially came to mean a kind of low-key theoretical socialism, achieved through legal channels, and it attracted a lot of the younger generation of heirs to the old "robber baron" families of American wealth.  For the most part, they tended to play within the existing political system.

In the 1960s the next generation of many of these families (along with a lot of other people) got frustrated with what they saw as the laissez-faire attitude of their liberal parents, and attempts to change a system mired in its own inertia from within.  Many freely identified with communism and Marxist ideas, but also rejected the ivory tower theoretical Marxism of what they saw as the old left; they emerged as the "New Left".  Their hallmarks were direct action -- standing on picket lines; marching in the streets; and generally opposing the status quo of the government/corporate/military "establishment".   These were the people who drove much of the radical change and turmoil of the 60s and 70s, and this was around the time when the old guard liberals -- their parents -- started being referred to a "white liberals".   For a while though, "liberal" generally meant the old guard, where as the new generation of liberals were called anything from "radicals" to "communists" to "anarchists" to a bunch of other things.

By the late 80s, "liberal" had shifted to the left, applied to the new generation, while "white liberal" had become something of a pejorative:  a term of contempt used to refer to a group of -- often wealthy; often older -- individuals who talked a good game as far as labor and minority rights, and power to the oppressed, and such -- but basically did nothing effective to bring about those ends.  At best they were considered impotent; at worst, hypocrites secretly working with the system they publicly professed to detest.  

Somewhat ironically, it was the emerging far right that muddied the waters here, in the person of Rush Limbaugh and other right wing flapping lips on talk radio.   Thanks to a combination of rabble-rousing, widespread audiences, and daily repetition, "liberal" was transformed into a description of pretty much anything left of the far right, including moderates, all democrats, both the old and new left, etc.  At the same time "conservative" got equated with "republican" and points right.

By rights, people should have actively resisted this reclassification.  But few in the late 80s foresaw the kind of political power that would come to be wielded by ignorant, loud-mouthed self-professed pundits, until it was too late.  By that time "liberalism" in the minds of much of the public has shifted significantly to the right -- even though they still called it "the left", and a great number of newcomers to "liberalism" went with the flow.  The true left, at least in the US, all but disappeared -- not so you'd notice if you listen to Limbaugh, et al, though.

I think a lot of people with social reformist ideas -- who would have been liberals back in the 1950s -- went through crises of conscience in the 1990s and 2000s.   They still associated teh term "liberal" with "the left", but also realized that the concept of "liberal" had somehow shifted to the right of their positions.  They continued to practice direct activism and pursue matters of social reform, but as a shotgun spray of splintered movements -- Black rights; Hispanic rights; Native rights; women's rights; gay rights; wage reform; healthcare; etc., etc., etc. -- and not as a cohesive movement or political philosophy.  This has undermined the impetus towards social progress.  Progress has still been made, but it's been two steps forward; one step back for a long time, now.  I see some effort made in the last ten years to recognize and deal with this problem, viz.  a lot of people who once would have been "liberal" now calling themselves "progressive".  How effective that's going to be remains to be seen.

Personally, I don't like the term "progressive", because it's already been used -- back in the 19-teens & 1920s -- and it picked up some pejorative baggage along the way (enforced population control; eugenics; etc.).  A better move, IMO, would have been to reclaim the term "liberal" and make it mean something positive.  A second choice would have been to coin a new term.  But it looks like we may be stuck with "progressive" for a while.

Anyway, if one is going to cast either praise or aspersion on "liberals", these days it behooves one to identify to what particular group of "liberals" one is referring; they're not all of a feather anymore, and haven't been for some time now.

HTH.
-- 
Dr H


"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
Reply



Messages In This Thread
White liberals are the true racists - by Sammin - October 6, 2018 at 9:41 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by DodosAreDead - October 6, 2018 at 9:46 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Joods - October 6, 2018 at 9:49 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by no one - October 6, 2018 at 9:53 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Gawdzilla Sama - October 6, 2018 at 10:21 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by CarveTheFive - October 6, 2018 at 9:56 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Divinity - October 6, 2018 at 9:59 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by CarveTheFive - October 6, 2018 at 10:06 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by pgrimes15 - October 19, 2018 at 6:05 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by CarveTheFive - October 19, 2018 at 10:04 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Joods - October 6, 2018 at 10:17 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by LastPoet - October 6, 2018 at 10:25 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Joods - October 6, 2018 at 10:36 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by GUBU - October 8, 2018 at 5:41 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by onlinebiker - October 6, 2018 at 1:26 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by epronovost - October 8, 2018 at 2:21 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Minimalist - October 6, 2018 at 1:26 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by no one - October 6, 2018 at 5:01 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Fake Messiah - October 8, 2018 at 2:29 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Nain - October 8, 2018 at 3:17 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Amarok - October 8, 2018 at 5:22 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Joods - October 8, 2018 at 6:13 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Dr H - October 11, 2018 at 5:47 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by CarveTheFive - October 11, 2018 at 6:10 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Dr H - October 12, 2018 at 7:58 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by KevinM1 - October 12, 2018 at 8:44 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by CapnAwesome - October 12, 2018 at 11:22 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Crossless2.0 - October 12, 2018 at 11:27 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by CarveTheFive - October 13, 2018 at 1:32 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by CapnAwesome - October 13, 2018 at 9:51 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Amarok - October 13, 2018 at 10:05 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by CapnAwesome - October 13, 2018 at 10:11 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Amarok - October 13, 2018 at 7:30 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by DodosAreDead - October 15, 2018 at 1:12 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Amarok - October 13, 2018 at 2:03 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by CarveTheFive - October 13, 2018 at 6:13 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Dr H - October 15, 2018 at 7:14 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by CapnAwesome - October 15, 2018 at 7:23 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Dr H - October 17, 2018 at 3:17 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by epronovost - October 17, 2018 at 7:56 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Dr H - October 18, 2018 at 7:27 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Whateverist - October 12, 2018 at 11:32 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Joods - October 13, 2018 at 10:12 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Joods - October 13, 2018 at 2:36 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by CarveTheFive - October 13, 2018 at 11:15 am
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Alan V - October 13, 2018 at 12:27 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by vulcanlogician - October 17, 2018 at 3:50 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by CapnAwesome - October 17, 2018 at 6:50 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by vulcanlogician - October 17, 2018 at 6:54 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by CapnAwesome - October 17, 2018 at 7:43 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Dr H - October 22, 2018 at 3:01 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by CapnAwesome - October 22, 2018 at 4:20 pm
RE: White liberals are the true racists - by Dr H - October 23, 2018 at 7:59 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  The Right's true opposition to CRT? Jehanne 33 2607 August 3, 2021 at 7:47 am
Last Post: Spongebob
  The white privilege to terrorize Foxaèr 116 8270 November 2, 2020 at 12:10 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Militias/BS white anxiety and toilet paper. Brian37 10 1175 October 29, 2020 at 1:21 pm
Last Post: Gawdzilla Sama
  Damned Racists, Vol II Minimalist 323 27626 August 3, 2019 at 10:13 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Stop Re litigating 2016 liberals /OP ED. Brian37 66 4872 February 21, 2019 at 7:59 am
Last Post: DLJ
  True Enough - Because Jesus Is An Embarrassment To Them Minimalist 8 1175 November 22, 2018 at 7:53 pm
Last Post: YahwehIsTheWay
  White Christians are in retreat Minimalist 0 238 October 21, 2018 at 6:29 pm
Last Post: Minimalist
Shocked Do you think Trump will be arrested or kicked out of the White House soon? WinterHold 32 3824 July 25, 2018 at 3:40 pm
Last Post: John V
  Do conservatives lie more than liberals? Angrboda 23 2635 June 17, 2018 at 11:40 am
Last Post: vorlon13
  One Less Cunt In The White House Minimalist 0 368 June 5, 2018 at 8:34 pm
Last Post: Minimalist



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)