(January 7, 2019 at 3:00 pm)Drich Wrote:(January 5, 2019 at 12:18 pm)Nihilist Virus Wrote: I think we should concede this point. I doubt John actually wrote Revelation, which would render your point invalid, but the lore here seems to be acceptably consistent. Jesus could have meant that John wouldn't die until he had his vision. Again I doubt this was the intent of what was said but your model does encapsulate it.
Have you even read the book of revelation? Chapter ! verse 1 John self identifies as the author of revelation!
This is a revelation[a] from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must happen soon. And Christ sent his angel to show it to his servant John, 2 who has told everything he saw. It is the truth that Jesus Christ told him; it is the message from God. 3 Great blessings belong to the person who reads the words of this message from God and to those who hear this message and do what is written in it. There is not much time left.
John Writes to the Churches
4 From John,
To the seven churches in the province of Asia:
So yeah perfect reason to doubt john authorship.. could have been any one named john, bt wait he identifies as "his servant John" meaning He literally served or walked along side Christ which is what this word means. Not a follower in the broader sense of Christianity but the greek word doulos which means slave servant disciple, John...
That said Jesus did say not all of you would pass before you saw me coming in my kingdom again.. let look at how rev 1 is phrased:
And Christ sent his angel to show it to his servant John,
Meaning while John was alive He literally saw everything in the book that he is about to describe. This by it self full fills Christ's proclamation.
That said I also think in a linear basis when it comes to the end times.
Our problem is we do not understand we are in a bubble of time and space and when we die we wake up outside of the bubble being able to see all of it from beginning to end. It is lke holding a DVD now if you where in the movie contained in the DVD you would be apart of that movie's time and space and would have to see thing play out. how eve outside of the dvd you can encapsulate the whole time and space continuum. as you are no apart of the movie tie line. meaning you can see or experience any part of the movie at any point,for you movie time and real world time are not the same. thik lord of the rings. How long do you think they were on their journey to destroy the ring days weeks months? now what of to us? outside their little bubble of time and space? a few hours total?
So who is right frodo when he said it was a long life changing adventure that took some time to complete or the person watch the movie who said the movies has a good pace and it was over before I knew it!
It is all a matter of perspective.as when we die we are pull from this DVD this bubble and placed in the real world. to us it would be instantaneous which is why we have the warning. One minute you are on the toilet mocking God on your favorite web ste next blik of an eye you are standing for Christ in judgement.
So when the bible says His kingdom is near it is speaking to your perception of how things will play out. As time is relative.
No, it is a matter of old mythology, not perspective. The ancient Romans falsely believed in Apollo as much as you believe in Jesus. The ancient Egyptians falsely believed in Ra, Osiris, Horus and Isis as much as Christians believe in Moses and Mary.
What is especially insidious about the Abrahamic three in Jewish, Christian and Islamic traditions, is all of them have an idea of a final era. The idea that a hero will come down in the end and save the loyalist and punish everyone else.
Many Jews don't believe in a hell, but still think their savior has yet to come. Muslims do think the 12th Imam, or final generation Imam will have the final say.
While every religion in the world has it's concepts of the end of everything, only the traditions of Abraham have an incentive to rush the end quicker.
The good thing is there is no afterlife, no heaven, no hell. The bad thing is humans mistake old mythology as fact, and instead of accepting it as mythology they'd rather retrofit after the fact to rush the end, which is not a prophecy but a self fulfilling push to an end to claim factual correctness, having nothing to do with objectivity, but mere human tribalism.
