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A timeless being cannot create
RE: A timeless being cannot create
(August 20, 2019 at 10:43 am)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: I think the incoherence depends on one's definition of time, as well as the relationship between said God and the qualities of time. Since I'm not a physicist, I'm unfamiliar with any of their research and theories for time. I view time as a primarily subjective experience of change; if change didn't occur out in the world we wouldn't perceive time out in the world. The best way I've seen it put is that events are perceived but time is not (Gibson, 1975). In short, events are the primary reality and time is an abstraction. So treating events as occurring "in" time, or treating time as a space needing to be filled, is backwards reasoning psychologically speaking.

When you say God is unaffected by temporal changes, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that. I take it to mean that God does not experience sequential changes in himself the way a withering flower might, but can he still have the "psychological" experience of time as he observes the withering flower and the universe in motion.

References: Gibson, J. J. (1975). Events are perceivable but time is not. In J. T. Fraser, & N. Lawrence, The study of time II (pp. 295-301). New York: Springer-Verlag.

This post addressed Christians who view God as outside time in the sense that past, present and future are the same for him (C. S. Lewis, Boethius etc.). I don't claim this addresses (or could address) all views on the matter. Since you don't appear to hold their view, it doesn't apply.
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Messages In This Thread
A timeless being cannot create - by mcc1789 - July 17, 2019 at 12:55 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by vulcanlogician - July 17, 2019 at 3:16 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by mcc1789 - July 17, 2019 at 4:12 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Aegon - August 20, 2019 at 3:35 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Belacqua - August 20, 2019 at 6:56 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by brewer - August 21, 2019 at 10:17 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Belacqua - July 17, 2019 at 4:27 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by mcc1789 - July 17, 2019 at 4:16 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Grandizer - July 19, 2019 at 12:15 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Bucky Ball - July 20, 2019 at 5:25 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Belacqua - July 20, 2019 at 5:32 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Belacqua - July 20, 2019 at 7:46 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Bucky Ball - July 20, 2019 at 2:03 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Bucky Ball - July 20, 2019 at 9:15 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Belacqua - July 20, 2019 at 5:50 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Bucky Ball - July 20, 2019 at 9:01 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Belacqua - July 20, 2019 at 9:28 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by WinterHold - July 17, 2019 at 4:28 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by mcc1789 - July 17, 2019 at 4:19 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by WinterHold - July 17, 2019 at 9:28 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by mcc1789 - July 17, 2019 at 9:53 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by WinterHold - July 17, 2019 at 10:53 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by mcc1789 - July 17, 2019 at 11:10 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by ignoramus - July 17, 2019 at 5:03 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Belacqua - July 17, 2019 at 6:48 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Belacqua - July 17, 2019 at 7:38 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by LadyForCamus - July 17, 2019 at 4:27 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Belacqua - July 17, 2019 at 6:06 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by mcc1789 - July 17, 2019 at 7:32 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Belacqua - July 17, 2019 at 8:22 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by mcc1789 - July 17, 2019 at 8:33 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Belacqua - July 18, 2019 at 1:09 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by LadyForCamus - July 18, 2019 at 10:53 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by mcc1789 - July 17, 2019 at 4:29 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Chad32 - July 17, 2019 at 6:41 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by brewer - July 17, 2019 at 7:36 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by LastPoet - July 17, 2019 at 8:33 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Anomalocaris - July 17, 2019 at 9:33 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by tackattack - July 17, 2019 at 9:22 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Anomalocaris - July 17, 2019 at 9:38 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by mcc1789 - July 17, 2019 at 9:05 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Mister Agenda - July 17, 2019 at 9:46 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Peebo-Thuhlu - July 17, 2019 at 10:16 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Deesse23 - July 17, 2019 at 11:27 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Peebo-Thuhlu - July 17, 2019 at 11:45 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by brewer - July 17, 2019 at 12:03 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Brian37 - July 17, 2019 at 10:17 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by The Grand Nudger - July 17, 2019 at 10:41 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by tackattack - July 17, 2019 at 10:53 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Anomalocaris - July 17, 2019 at 8:49 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by The Grand Nudger - July 17, 2019 at 11:32 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by no one - July 17, 2019 at 11:51 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by comet - July 17, 2019 at 3:57 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Anomalocaris - July 17, 2019 at 4:56 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by LastPoet - July 17, 2019 at 4:13 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Deesse23 - July 18, 2019 at 2:03 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by mcc1789 - July 17, 2019 at 9:57 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by vulcanlogician - July 17, 2019 at 10:03 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by WinterHold - July 17, 2019 at 10:59 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by BryanS - July 17, 2019 at 11:12 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by WinterHold - July 19, 2019 at 12:06 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by BryanS - July 19, 2019 at 11:09 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by WinterHold - July 20, 2019 at 1:27 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by BryanS - July 20, 2019 at 8:47 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by The Grand Nudger - July 17, 2019 at 11:15 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by WinterHold - July 19, 2019 at 12:30 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Deesse23 - July 19, 2019 at 2:09 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by The Grand Nudger - July 17, 2019 at 10:10 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by vulcanlogician - July 17, 2019 at 10:37 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by BryanS - July 17, 2019 at 10:55 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Mister Agenda - July 18, 2019 at 10:32 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by tackattack - July 18, 2019 at 2:46 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by mcc1789 - July 18, 2019 at 7:29 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Belacqua - July 19, 2019 at 1:46 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by tackattack - July 19, 2019 at 3:55 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Belacqua - July 19, 2019 at 6:00 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Belacqua - July 20, 2019 at 12:54 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by LadyForCamus - July 20, 2019 at 3:50 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Belacqua - July 20, 2019 at 8:21 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Bucky Ball - July 21, 2019 at 1:39 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by mcc1789 - July 19, 2019 at 5:11 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Peebo-Thuhlu - July 18, 2019 at 2:55 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Mister Agenda - July 18, 2019 at 4:35 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by LadyForCamus - July 18, 2019 at 4:36 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by BryanS - July 18, 2019 at 11:14 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by ColdComfort - July 18, 2019 at 11:56 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by The Grand Nudger - July 19, 2019 at 12:08 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Peebo-Thuhlu - July 19, 2019 at 2:59 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Anomalocaris - July 19, 2019 at 3:41 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Bucky Ball - July 20, 2019 at 5:34 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Belacqua - July 20, 2019 at 6:20 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Bucky Ball - July 20, 2019 at 7:05 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Anomalocaris - July 20, 2019 at 4:30 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Bucky Ball - July 23, 2019 at 11:15 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by John 6IX Breezy - August 20, 2019 at 10:43 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Deesse23 - August 20, 2019 at 1:11 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by John 6IX Breezy - August 20, 2019 at 1:36 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Deesse23 - August 20, 2019 at 3:11 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by John 6IX Breezy - August 20, 2019 at 3:17 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Deesse23 - August 21, 2019 at 12:40 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by John 6IX Breezy - August 21, 2019 at 12:51 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by downbeatplumb - August 20, 2019 at 1:38 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Grandizer - August 20, 2019 at 1:59 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by John 6IX Breezy - August 20, 2019 at 3:03 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by mcc1789 - August 20, 2019 at 7:14 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by John 6IX Breezy - August 20, 2019 at 8:16 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by mcc1789 - August 20, 2019 at 9:53 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Grandizer - August 20, 2019 at 11:15 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by mcc1789 - August 20, 2019 at 11:41 pm
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Grandizer - August 21, 2019 at 3:51 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Grandizer - August 21, 2019 at 10:32 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by Grandizer - August 29, 2019 at 1:01 am
RE: A timeless being cannot create - by John 6IX Breezy - August 21, 2019 at 10:15 am

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