Agnosticism IS the most dishonest position

[The Grand Nudger]

My "garbage system" is that there are moral facts.  Things truly right and wrong.  Do you disagree? 

Yeah, sure I do. And your moral facts led you to say, with every ounce of your intellect, that according to your moral realism : infidelity wouldn't be wrong. That's you, your moral realism, the combined product of your upbringing, readings, experience, and cognitive abilities couldn't point out what is horribly wrong with being infidel if no explicit harm is done.

You can't seem to decide.  Here at the beginning you say that you do disagree, but by the end you say that you don't.  There either are..or there aren't... moral facts.  It really is one or the other.  

It's true, though, that moral realism contends that things simply can't be wrong without some bad-making property.  It was actually your explanation for why infidelity could be bad that lead to the rational conclusion that it may not be.  Open relationships don't work for me...and I doubt that you've had pussy since pussy had you...but some people simply aren't harmed by it, and it makes little sense to call it wrong if no one is being harmed.

I don't care if it's clumsy, or if it doesn't suit your euphorical morality that fails miserably when we change examples. Drugging the victim beforehand effectively removes the physical AND psychological harm, and you're not left with much to back up your assertion : it's a fact that rape is bla bla. That's the theoretical cost of atheism, rejecting god, claiming we got it all by science : you have no background, no references, all you have is the hope of figuring out some internally consistent *moral system* then play around and reshape the system through trial and error, no matter how immoral the errors turn out to be. You made it, you turned ethics into a playground, thanks to your moral realism.

If that's what you think, that drugging a girl before raping her makes it somehow less or not wrong - then what can I say?  This has literally nothing to do with atheism, lol.  The existence of moral facts doesn't mean that everyone will agree on them.

I am not a moral realist, I think it can still be wrong with the absence of these properties. You are endorsing moral realism, so if you can't find something wrong - as defined in your system - in infidelitey, it renders the act perfectly moral and sweet in your worldview. You may not be **okay** with it, whatever the hell "okay" is supposed to mean, but that's irrelevant. If you don't want to follow any order, you better build the whole system you're advocating for. 

-and gl explaining what makes something bad..in the absence of bad-making properties, if you really believe this.

The beauty of moral realism..and, really, any rational moral system - is that it doesn't need to be "built".  We assess things as they come, by reference to relevant facts and valid inferences in coherent propositions.  

You seem to have some delusion that we're playing with darts when it comes to morality. Just make sure you got it right with regard to afterlife not existing, being held accountable for what you're saying, doing, advocating ...

...and now you're the dipshit threatening me with hell..as though I believed in hell, or it would matter if I believed in hell.  I don't, and it doesn't.  I can only tell you this so many times in so many ways.  If doing the right thing gets me sent to hell..I guess that's where I'm going. If doing the wrong thing gets me into heaven..I'll never make it in. There's really nothing I can do about either situation..nothing I can do to prevent some silly god from doing what it wants.

I have a moral system....it's not a bid to get an all expenses vacay to the land of liquor rivers and cherubic sex dolls. I can save you alot of trouble. Assume that I'm going to hell. So what? The question of an acts moral status is a question about that act, not about where my soul might one day end up.

In the end, you simply abide by your local legal system, and adjust your retarded moral system accordingly, to appear cool and solid when writing in these forums. A moral system which, as I made it clear, doesn't and can't behave well when put into test. In the end, you'll do what everybody around you does, you'll be okay with legalizing homosexuality, prostitution, "healthy open marriages", and more . You're simply part of the slutty, secularized western system, nothing more, nothing moral.

It's understandable that, after every miserable failure of yours to patch theoretical holes in your atheism, you'll pull the 'I don't care' card. That's understandable because you think you won't be held accountable for that. Just make sure you got that last part right.

I've managed to trudge through my turgid existence without becoming a child molesting warlord.  I don't draw a blank as to why rape is bad or imagine that drugging the victim makes it better.   

Seems to be working well enough for me.  

I reject neither, I just happen to have different, more coherent definitions of what moral facts are, and why they are facts. It just seems to me that you think you're living in a universe immune from a possible god / a possible afterlife. I suggest you re-ead a very important sentence I wrote to you : if your senses can easily deceive you, so can your rational thought with regard to ethics, and the stinky, unethical products of your rational thought.

If you don't reject moral facts, or mans ability to reason..then you don't object to my moral system at all.  Your god musings are your own.  I..don't...care.

In a universe with or without a god, the bad things are bad and the good things are good.  Regardless of what a god tells me to do (or not to do) in any universe, the thing is either good or bad on objective grounds.  Neither gods existence or gods say so are good or bad making properties of any x.

I want you to take a breath here and realize that you're reduced to threatening me...for moral realism...lol.  For proposing that there are moral facts.  For contending that there are things that are truly right, and truly wrong.  Is that supposed to make me join the club?  No, OFC not, it's yet another immoral feather in the islamic cap.  

Good fucking job.