RE: What God's justification for eternal torment?
December 15, 2020 at 8:18 am
(This post was last modified: December 15, 2020 at 8:27 am by Confused-by-christianity.)
(December 15, 2020 at 7:58 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: We all deceive ourselves. We're the first and primary target of our own fiction. In this case, though, I'm not wondering whether you deceive yourself about a god, about theism. Rather, whether you have deceived yourself into believing that you can't know such and such until you die.
If we can refer to our experience in the alleged soul forge, and if we take our experience to be instructive, why couldn't we know things about the soul forge before we die? Isn't the soul forge proposition a claim about the reality we experience, in and of itself? For example, when I posited that the soul forge must be inefficient or slow - that's based on our experience in it. Presumably, it's been working on human beings for a quarter million years or so...and there have been alot of deaths in childhood and infancy, and..presumably, a great many people die having not learned whatever it is we imagine they ought to. You reckon that we're still somewhere near the beginning of it's run, for your part.
Alot of forging with no teachable moment or means, and no noticeable improvement in souls. By our experience, which is important to us and which we both take to be instructive, the soul forge isn't a great forge. Now..sure, sure, maybe we could be wrong about things we think we know - even when it comes to experience. That immediately presents another wrinkle. Why would that change when we die? People ask ghosts questions any number of ways but we seem to forget that those ghosts could easily be people we wouldn't have asked any question of in life. Asking Ogg the Village Idiot who died in 8k bc the meaning of everything is a fools errand, chasing other fools.
I'm basically saying I believe a thing. But, I don't rule out that I could be wrong. (I don't think I am wrong).
I had an experience (a few actually) and I really do believe it was God coming to me.
Some would say the experience was real but I am mistaken about it really being "God".
That would be a fair point - I can't rule that out.
However - for me, I'm convinced.
"...wondering whether ... you have deceived yourself into believing that you can't know such and such until you die." - I don't think so. I'm expecting some things will become clearer when I die. That's not to say "You cannot know before that".
I did say "I guess I'll have to wait until I die to find out" - this was referring to an expectation.
Simply put - I often don't rule things out in an effort to keep an open mind and really listen, or understand. (Thats not to say there aren't some things I do rule out).