Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: April 29, 2024, 9:15 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
[Serious] What God's justification for eternal torment?
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment?
(December 15, 2020 at 1:45 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: You're the one who just told us that earthquakes were a demon doing random bad shit.  Heaven forfend you were being disingenuous or just plain stupid. 

I am afraid you're missing the point. The idea is not that the demon provoking earthquakes exists, or may exist, it's simply that you cannot rule it out. If you cannot rule out an alternative explanation to all evil, then your argument for the nonexistence of a benevolent god who gave us free will [because there is too much evil] no longer works.

(December 15, 2020 at 1:45 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: That has to be the cutest and quickest retraction from a batshit claim that I've ever witnessed. 

Who cares if it's batshit ? The important thing is that it dismantled the argument. A random imaginary demon that can't be excluded seems to account for all the atheist's objections to evil. That's it. The logical problem of evil... is no longer a problem.

I really don't understand what's so compelling about this problem. It clearly isn't a problem for any theist believing that God gave us free will. Maybe it's a more serious one for christians, who consider God an all-loving deity , that loves them so much it died for their sins [and condemns some of them to eternal punishment at the same time]

(December 15, 2020 at 1:45 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Human beings also disagree on the answer to 2+2.  Disagreement is not an argument against objectivity or for a god.  It's not even a credible suggestion on it's own grounds.  People disagree -with- gods, and in a universe in which god exists, allegedly.

Okay. If all human beings agree on what 2 and + stand for, then there should be no disagreement about 2+2, if someone disagrees nonetheless, then he is demonstrably mistaken. I should've been more carful with the word disagreement, as it should only entail, in this context, the kind of disagreement that can't be settled by a simple appeal to logical rules.

Not the same thing can be said about moral issues, good and evil are hard to define, unless one copies some verse from some scripture doing so. As a result there are many controversial issues that people will never agree on such as abortion, homosexuality, emancipation of women, etc.
It's true that there are some moral golden rules out there, but again, what makes them authoritative ?

(December 15, 2020 at 1:45 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Though, at the end of the day I agree with you, for things to be right or wrong there must be some moral authority, and that moral authority can't be swayed one way or another by a moral agents existence or it's own moral disagreement with that authority.  Your god is an asshole, or there are asshole demons your god can't handle (or maybe earthquakes don't have anything to do with gods or demons)...hardly matters to me, doesn't matter at all to objective moral claims.

And now you have a new problem, what moral authority to pick. If this absolute moral agent doesn't exist, then clearly there is no exemplary moral code to follow. And one might simply adopt his country's criminal law, for example, as the list of good/bad actions. But again, criminal law changes from one country to another.

I'm not sure what you're driving at, though, mentioning demons and earthquakes. You don't seem to understand the point of invoking the imaginary demon. Again, it clearly shows that atheist's attempt to disprove the existence of a three omni god based on evil is a non sequitur.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment? - by Smaug - August 24, 2020 at 12:25 pm
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment? - by Smaug - September 17, 2020 at 2:08 pm
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment? - by Drich - September 9, 2020 at 11:02 am
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment? - by Angrboda - September 9, 2020 at 12:10 pm
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment? - by Drich - September 14, 2020 at 3:17 pm
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment? - by Sal - October 7, 2020 at 6:48 pm
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment? - by Sal - October 8, 2020 at 8:45 pm
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment? - by GUBU - October 11, 2020 at 4:50 am
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment? - by Sal - October 7, 2020 at 6:23 pm
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment? - by Sal - October 11, 2020 at 2:43 am
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment? - by Sal - October 11, 2020 at 2:42 pm
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment? - by Foxaèr - November 24, 2020 at 10:33 am
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment? - by Foxaèr - November 24, 2020 at 10:14 pm
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment? - by Apollo - November 25, 2020 at 12:33 am
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment? - by Foxaèr - November 26, 2020 at 10:04 am
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment? - by Foxaèr - November 25, 2020 at 10:31 am
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment? - by Apollo - November 26, 2020 at 12:22 am
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment? - by Chas - December 6, 2020 at 8:09 pm
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment? - by Apollo - December 15, 2020 at 11:15 am
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment? - by Foxaèr - December 15, 2020 at 11:25 am
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment? - by Apollo - December 15, 2020 at 1:39 pm
RE: What God's justification for eternal torment? - by R00tKiT - December 15, 2020 at 5:11 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  I'm a Universalist - Can anyone convince me of 'Eternal Damnationism'? The Kreisel 16 1445 February 26, 2021 at 3:02 am
Last Post: beepete
  Did Yahweh do us a favor by denying us eternal life? Greatest I am 30 2627 July 26, 2020 at 3:03 pm
Last Post: Greatest I am
  Jesus suffering vs eternal suffering of temporary sinners purplepurpose 72 9379 November 19, 2018 at 4:55 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Eternal afterlife purplepurpose 129 24981 February 14, 2018 at 8:46 am
Last Post: Abaddon_ire
  Little children who died without Baptism go to eternal Hell?! Jehanne 34 6050 February 29, 2016 at 6:22 pm
Last Post: Whateverist
  Biblical justification for scripture cherry picking ?? vorlon13 8 2993 November 17, 2015 at 3:00 pm
Last Post: Drich
  Q: What is trans-galactic, eternal and omni-everything? A: God, necessarily? Whateverist 21 5635 August 11, 2015 at 5:31 pm
Last Post: Wyrd of Gawd
  Speculate on Jesus 3 days of HELLISH torment !!! vorlon13 136 25672 August 9, 2015 at 8:53 pm
Last Post: McDoogins
  Eternal Hells - Do not exist! themonkeyman 11 4125 June 17, 2014 at 11:01 am
Last Post: Wyrd of Gawd
  God is god, and we are not god StoryBook 43 12473 January 6, 2014 at 5:47 pm
Last Post: StoryBook



Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)