RE: BREAKING:Italy charges Egyptian security agency officials over murder of Giulio R.
December 12, 2020 at 6:17 pm
(December 12, 2020 at 5:03 pm)WinterHold Wrote:(December 12, 2020 at 7:23 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Only if you get enough people to go along with you on the sanctions. Let's say the US were to sanction Egypt for...well...being Egypt (as good a reason as any). This means Egypt loses trade money, but it also opens up another market (China, for example) to take up the slack.
But as long as Egypt remains a profitable market for the EU, you can forget about anything meaningful in the way of diplomatic or economic reprisals.
Boru
Egypt's economy is based on tourism, if the western countries departed from the relations with it Egypt's economy will suffer greatly.
What about the American support for the Egyptian army? that can stop too; along with any European support for the army.
China and Russia are the west's scapegoat to flirt with dictators and third world warlords. Egypt\s army get free support and weapons from the west; its whole military arsenal is western, they can't switch to Russian and Chinese tools overnight. The sanctions will cripple their regime.
(December 12, 2020 at 7:36 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Nations have to exist in reality, Winter..and in reality, nation a is not in control of what nation b does, but still has to maintain those relationships which are of interest to the state.
Sanctions, at least as we've tended to use them and as how most of us conceive of them, were probably never a particularly good idea. The people and not the bad actors pay for those sanctions (and this might be why rulers like sanctions so much...just food for thought). Direct action against the bad actors themselves is a more lucid strategy..but this, ofc, is "regime change".....so...you know, pretty sure you're not on board with anything that might ever help anyone.
I do think that I have a way to help you understand this by exploiting your own peculiarities. Imagine someone applying sanctions or regime change to the US. Not the fantasy of it, the nuts and bolts of the reality. See the difficulty?
I will answer to your argument with an example: Iran.
Look what American sanctions did to Iran; it shrank its role hugely and ended and left them isolated and crippled.
Egypt will fall if sanctions are imposed, all I understand is that the west has no morals; actually if their interest is inside an animal\s anus they will fist the animal without any problems. They don't care about civilian deaths in Egypt (and it started to reach their own citizens there now). Do you think that kind of political agenda is worthy of respect?
Sure, sanctions against Egypt’s tourism industry could work - IF you could convince most of the countries in the Americas, Europe, Western Asia and Saharan African to ban their people from going to have a butcher’s at the pyramids. Short of that, it’s not going to happen. In addition, you’d be punishing the people who have nothing to do with Egypt’s admittedly rotten record on human rights.
The Iran sanctions are a good comparison, but not in the way you probably think. A nuclear Iran was a imminent danger to the Middle East and - by extension - the rest of the world. Most countries couldn’t WAIT to sanction Iran (even then, there were a lot of holes that never got plugged). The Egyptian savagery towards dissidents and inconvenient foreigners doesn’t begin to approach that same level of threat.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson