I have some questions for the posters here.

[Frank Apisa]

C'mon, Nudger. My guess: You have not looked nearly enough to make the assertion "no theistic world creators in our world."
But, you are an atheist...and you are going to insist you have.
Fine with me. 
Theists are that way, too. Can't budge them from their guesses about the REALITY either.
Kinda fun to discuss it though.

Sure I have, and you agreed with my summary on the subject of gods..so I'm not sure what the problem is now anymore than I knew what it was supposed to be when we began.

A god is either a, or it is not a.  It cannot be both a and not a, that would be...impossible.  I guess that's as far as we'll get?  I know that there are no gods, and you can't quite articulate why or how you doubt it, you just do.  I certainly wouldn't expect to budge a believer who thinks he sat in a car with god and had a chat, no.  Would you?

If you want to think you KNOW there are no gods...fine with me. I am acquainted with people who think they KNOW there is at least one god...and that is fine with me also.

There was no "problem" when we began. I just wanted to find the answers to some questions...and I have. 

Thank you for your help.

---

I am convinced that in discussions about REALITY...especially in discussions about whether gods exist or not)...the words "believe" and "belief" are used as a disguise for "guess." I understand why theist do it. It makes more sense for them to say, "I 'believe' there is a god" than to say, "I guess there is a god."

Not sure why people who use atheist as a descriptor do it. Easy for them to say, "MY guess is there are no gods." No big deal.

In any case, I do not do guessing on the issue...so I do not do "believing."

If you insist, however, I am willing to make a guess. I promise I am doing this legit. I am going to toss Mr. Coin in a second. Heads, I will guess there is at least one god; Tails I will guess there are no gods. (My wife and I use Mr. Coin to settle difference in pool picks during the NFL season, so it gets lots of work.)

I flipped...TRULY...and it came up HEADS. I hereby guess there is at least one god.

Makes as much sense as what the theists and atheists do on the issue.

Beliefs are real things.  It is something the mind does.

A belief is a conditional acceptance of some statement or concept, as true.  It can be based on evidence, or it can be based on emotion.  It is always based on incomplete information, because we can't know anything for certain.  But, beliefs exist, and they are vital to our ability to make choices in the world.

Our mind has a belief network that allows us to make choices.  With a science background, I have "belief" in most tested scientific theories (despite knowing that they will be overturned by something better one day).  I believe that I can't change traffic lights with my mind.  I also believe that a deity isn't going to throw me in hell for not believing in Him (despite not knowing for certain).

Beliefs aren't about certainty -- the are a tentative acceptance of an idea, so that we can live our lives and make choices.

Beliefs are positive actions.  You can't tentatively accept something you've never heard about, and therefore I can't believe in unknown gods.  It makes no sense.  If I did believe that there is a god, but it is unknown, I'd be praying or thanking the unknown god.  I have no such beliefs.


If you make choices based on the possibility that gods exist, then you are not an atheist.  If you decide to break a Mosaic law, and you think "hey, God might exist, therefore I probably shouldn't", then perhaps you do believe in god to some degree.

If you live your life without a care about divine punishment, divine commands, or divine intervention, then you don't believe in gods!!  Then you're an atheist.

I live my life without a care about divine punishment, divine commands and divine intervention.

I do not "believe" any gods exist...just as I do not "believe" there are no gods.

AND I AM NOT AN ATHEIST.

---

I am NOT an atheist.

Then you believe in god, lol. We can go round and round all day long!

I AM NOT AN ATHEIST.

I understand some atheists want all agnostics to be considered atheists also, probably to increase the intelligence of the atheistic gene pool, but you will have to do without me.

I AM NOT AN ATHEIST. 

If you say you are an atheist...I accept that you are an atheist. Have the courtesy to accept that I am not an atheist.

---

On a sliding scale of acceptable to Drich, I'm leaning more toward the fair end of the spectrum.

New guy is playing word games.  Drich doesn't know the language...so there's that.

I am not playing word games. I AM saying that I do not know if gods exist or not.

I know of many theists who are certain they KNOW that at least one god exists...or KNOW that it is more likely that at least one god exists than that no gods exist. 

I know of many atheists who are certain they KNOW that no gods exist...or KNOW that it is more likely that no gods exist than that at least one does.

I think they are all full of soup.

I have never seen any theist who thinks that way...or atheist who thinks that way...come up with any logic or science that rationalizes those guesses.

Theists don't particularly like it when you show them the fault in their "logic."

Atheists seem to loathe it when you show them the fault in theirs. 

I'm hoping we can all discuss this reasonably...but as you have noted, you are not a fan...and you always have "OUT YOU GO" at your disposal if the heat gets too intense.