I have some questions for the posters here.

[Frank Apisa]

What's the point of accusing people of holding a position that they do not when you're not prepared to discuss that same position with a person who does hold it?

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Let me give you something to ponder.  Why would it be unknowable whether or not entities we created for effect had an independent existence, part of which, per the claim, that they created our world?  How might a thing we've created create the world in which we live before the fact of our own existence?  Now, mind you, I'm not asking you whether or not you agree that we created gods, I want to know why you think the answer to the question of a gods existence, as you describe them, would be unknowable. 

I did not say "gods exist" was unknowable.  (It may well be, but I never said it was.) 

I DID say that "no gods exist" is unknowable.

If that has to be explained "why?"...you are not capable of understanding.

Why, if a person can make such an assertion, and that assertion can be true or false, would the existential status of gods be a cognitive black box?  What prevents any interested observer or potential knower from leveraging true assertions toward a valid conclusion that they then claim as knowledge?  Would that hypothetical thing or issue or problem also apply to other knowledge claims, claims like knowing my own name, or whether the sun is currently shining?  Obviously, it would be difficult to speak directly to your concerns about knowledge and knowledge claims unless you can articulate exactly where you veer off the path others might take, or..alternatively, why you feel that the path you also take when making knowledge claims is fundamentally inapplicable to this one item or whatever set of items you believe gods belong to.

There is a VERY remote possibility that someone could KNOW that a god or gods exist. IF there are gods, they certainly can make the  fact of their existence known.

There is NO way anyone can KNOW that no gods exist. There is NO WAY for a 'no god" to inform anyone that it does not exist. 

Like I said, if you cannot see that plainly...you would not understand any explanation.[/quote]