God Became a Mirage

[Edward]

I am not dogmatic (at least i hope not!) I doubt everything...

Doubting everything is its own kind of dogma called skepticism. Notice the -ism on the end of the word. Many atheists I have talked to simply refuse to believe in God, no matter what they are shown, or how it is debated. They are dogmatic in their disbelief.

Don't get me wrong. I think I too am an atheist, but I don't need to be an atheist.

The hypothetical "God" is SUPERnatural and not natural in the sense it is a highly complex intelligent designer that was there right from the start and capable of creating a whole lot of things...by design.. its outside the box and like nothing else. Created from scratch - or from itself...
And it is highly complex simple because it is capable of doing all these things right from the start....this "God" is 'just there' and is capable of 'creating it all'...that's not natural in the sense its like nothing else and was a lot more complex than all 'the natural' stuff and is capable of designing it right from the start.

OK, that's cool. The thing I like about you EvF is that you step up to the plate and define that which you say you don't believe in. I am clear on what you mean when you use the term "God" and I'm clear on what you mean by "supernatural."

Btw, are these dreams you speak of like highly intense lucid dreams or something like that?
I've had them like one or two times in a negative way...can be scary - you don't know what's going on but you are 'there and aware' of it.
I've had more pleasant ones though luckily.

I, too, have had lucid dreams in the past. But I have never had a lucid dream that was "precognitive." The precognitive ones are always like regular dreams. I did have a precognitive episode recently only I was awake. I think it was pretty synchronicitous, at least, albeit not as startling as the one I mentioned.

Dreams are interesting things and they are worth studying, because though the scientific-types often shy away from the subject of consciousness, it is as sure a phenomenon as ever there was one. We prove it here everytime we post to each other. I think any GUT, or TOE, is going to have to include the element of consciousness in the equation.

I personally think Edward has just been watching a load of anti-atheist videos which depict atheism as somewhat of a cult.

I'm sure you are right. My entire experience with atheism/theism has been nothing more than a load of anti-atheist videos from the fundies.

Being an atheist only means you don't believe in gods.

I agree.

Your atheist doctrines make no sense as they aren't linked to atheism any more than they are linked to theism...

Doctrine 1 - This is just good science. Science doesn't try to do the impossible, and science is a measure of what exists. It cannot tell us what happened before existence. We can make some guesses though.

What about the airplane? I'm reading an article now in Discover about invisibility. And where does "guessing" fit into good science? My point is that atheism can often be very closed-minded, e.g. stating that it is impossible to know what happened before the big bang. That's something atheists seem to need, not something science or math wouldn't allow us to discover.

Doctrine 2 - I believe in consciousness (real consciousness) so I fail to see how it is an atheist doctrine. In fact I reckon most atheists believe in a consciousness. That said, I don't see the "blatant contradiction" you speak of...

Fair enough.

Doctrine 3 - Science says everything inevitably tends to chaos in a closed system. There are however many open systems out there, and order is present in them. Order isn't an illusion, but the result of certain universal laws.

I agree.

Doctrine 4 - Not inherently, but then again I make my own purpose for being there, and I don't see why other people cannot do the same. We are only a bunch of atoms after all.

I don't think an entity that is contingent can create a purpose for itself. My body and my mind are contingent, so my purpose has to come from before me. We can make an artificial purpose, and I think that would be similar to a psychological defense mechanism perhaps useful to counter existential despair, but we can't really create our purpose. IMO.

Doctrine 5 - Not so. If I were to suddenly "find God" tomorrow, I would still accept Evolution and result to theistic evolution. I'm fully aware that if a God did exist, Evolution was the way it decided to create us.

I agree.

So epic fail on the doctrine front. Sorry.

Hardly epic! You should see some of my other failures.