Why don't conservatives see that welfare programs are good for society as a whole?

[frankiej]

I have a friend who I met doing an interview for some documentary he was doing about uprisings in the middle east, and he knows a few people who live in Libya. According to them, what you have said is just not true. They say it was a civilian uprising due to the horrible conditions they had to live in, because of the regime... They could just be lying to me you know... Maybe the Americans told them to lie to their friend.

[Mister Agenda]

I would spend more than we're currently spending on welfare if it was targeted (successfully) at getting people OUT of poverty. Maybe a bonus paid to social workers and their clients if the client gets a job that lets them get off the rolls. And it would have to be dropped if ineffective. Job Corps has been a failure, the standard for success should be how many people who go through it get jobs, not how many asses they can put in the classroom seats, which are currently housing a lot of asses who aren't there to learn anything with an instructor who as no incentive to throw out the ones who are wasting his or her and their and their fellow students' time. We should work hard to get as many people as possible out of poverty and provide a safety net for people for whom that is impossible. Maybe if we cut our rolls in half, private charities COULD make up the difference, but right now it's a problem that takes government to handle.

[paintpooper]

I have a friend who I met doing an interview for some documentary he was doing about uprisings in the middle east, and he knows a few people who live in Libya. According to them, what you have said is just not true. They say it was a civilian uprising due to the horrible conditions they had to live in, because of the regime... They could just be lying to me you know... Maybe the Americans told them to lie to their friend.

Perhaps but who knows the 100% truth? I don't. I don't claim too, I'm just throwing out facts.
When I see a country that gives people free health, free education, and free housing/electricity, they created a multi billion dollar water system to provide clean water to Libyans. I have to question when people say it's horrible conditions. That is all. I do my thinking based on these things. Based on what Libya was before the Gaddafi revolution... they are in paradise.

I have also seen YouTube videos of rallies with people FOR Gaddafi(much larger then the ones against him), so either both are lying, one side is lying, or both are skewing the reality. I don't know the truth, but I really am striving to figure it out.
Absolutes are a horrible thing, if more evidence comes my way that shows Gaddafi should have been taken out, then that is the stance I will take. Opinions and attitudes on subjects much be fluid and able to change with new evidence.

Here is something to ponder. If someone asks random American citizens about our leadership, you would get people who say they HATE Obama that he is a Muslim terrorists bent on destroying the US. So that is why I don't take witness testimony very seriously. If I don't see it, or cant make a logical conclusion based on facts that collaborate what someones claims to see, they I can't accept it as reality.

[frankiej]

Perhaps but who knows the 100% truth? I don't. I don't claim too, I'm just throwing out facts.
When I see a country that gives people free health, free education, and free housing/electricity, they created a multi billion dollar water system to provide clean water to Libyans. I have to question when people say it's horrible conditions. That is all. I do my thinking based on these things. Based on what Libya was before the Gaddafi revolution... they are in paradise.

Well, it is safe to say that we are not masters of the subject
All I have to go on is what I have been told second hand. What was said to me is that these things are free, but they are of poor quality.
I don't know all the facts, so I won't jump to any conclusions about the matter.

However, yes, something wasn't quite right about it all, but I don't think it is as extreme as you make out.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Who really wants to give out their money to others?

I do. When I get some that is.

I don't mean as charity.
I mean, when they automatically request it from you in form of a tax.

Thus creating jobs and keeping those people in the welfare fraud squad in paid employment.

Meaning, they also have to pay the guys who are checking up on the welfare cheaters.
Besides, I'm not saying that everyone is cheating the government.
These guys practically check upon each and every of the people who are under welfare.

It's okay if you're a small country like Finland or New Zealand...
But how do you think that'll work out for America?

And America's government is fed only by it's taxes.
In our country, for example, we have many government owned enterprises, and I'm looking forward to the time when we found Turan, we will nationalize the oil and gas reserves within the country so we can use it to provide welfare benefits.
In capitalist America, where they even privatize schools and even prisons, where do you think the American government will find the money to use it for welfare applications?
You need to completely re-do the system to actually allow for this.

[rhonin85]

Private charities are not the way to go... maybe its just my bias but when i hear private charities I really take it to mean religious charities. Im not saing the religious charities dont do good work but there is too much chance for discrimination and conversion tactics. I know of several christian charities that simply will not offer help to gay couples at least and while i was still attending church I had been hurt on the job so i asked them for help and i was told i could only do this once a year. I dunno maybe its just my negative expirience with them but I really dont trust any organization with little to no accountability.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Discrimination against who?
How derelict could gay people actually be anyways?

[Mister Agenda]

Charities not being considered synonymous with 'Christian charities' is something we really need to work on.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Well, charities are charities. But if they are involved in christian missions...It'd be better for them to stay in christian countries. We do not look favorably upon such missionaries in Turkey.
Their work is bent upon undermining our society and our good customs, and replacing it with theirs.
We do not want that. They do the same in India too. Africa and many other places.

[Minimalist]

He was from the wrong tribe.

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Now, on to the topic at hand:

Here's Newt Gingrich showing what a great humanitarian he is.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-5...mp-remark/

Just days after Republican presidential hopeful Rick Santorum took heat for singling out blacks on entitlement reform, Newt Gingrich called out the African-American community for being dependent on food stamps -- despite the fact that blacks make up less than one third of recipients in the food stamp program.