Blasphemy II

[kılıç_mehmet]

Would you like to borrow my shovel then??

I'm done with digging a long time ago. I've found all the treasure I need within the embrace of Turanism.
And we are growing, and you are dwindling.

[The Grand Nudger]

"Pan-Turanianism, like Nazi “racial sciences”, or Stalinist “History”, has failed to convince the majority of western scholarship to support its cause, and has been as equally unsuccessful in Eastern Europe, with the exception of the Republic of Azerbaijan"



Wiki godwinned you. What are you even doing here? Shouldn't you be crying rahowa (care to provide the translation for me?) in some dirty street somewhere?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Turkism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turanism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_Wolves

The Highlights

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Genocide
[edit]Armenian Genocide
Main articles: Armenian Genocide and Armenians
Pan-Turkism is also cited by critics as a direct cause for the Armenian Genocide of 1915, in which Enver Pasha was involved, as an attempt to remove non-Turkic and non-Muslim minorities from the late Ottoman Empire in order to foster a new Pan-Turkish state.[16][17]
[edit]Greek Genocide
Main articles: Greek genocide and Ottoman Greeks
The Greek genocide[18] is a term used by some academics to refer to the fate of the Greek population of the Ottoman Empire during and in the aftermath of World War I (1914–1923). Like Armenians and Assyrians, the Greeks were subjected to various forms of persecution including massacres, expulsions, and death marches by Young Turk and Kemalist authorities[citation needed]. George W. Rendel of the British Foreign Office, among other diplomats, noted the massacres and deportations of Greeks during the post-Armistice period.[19] It is estimated that hundreds of thousands of Ottoman Greeks may have died during this period as a result of these persecutions.[20]
[edit]Assyrian Genocide
Main articles: Assyrian Genocide and Assyrian people
Alongside the Armenian and Greek Genocides, the Assyrian Genocide took place at the hand of the pan-Turkist young Turk regime in the Ottoman empire.[21] By 1922, in a memorandum from the Assyro-Chaldean National Council, an estimate of approximately 275,000 Assyrians were killed.[21]
[edit]Dersim Ethnocide
Main article: Dersim Massacre
In 1937–1938, approximately 65,000–70,000 Alevi Kurds[22][23][24] were killed and thousands were taken into exile. A key component of the turkification process was the policy of massive population resettlement. Referring to the main policy document in this context, the 1934 law on resettlement, a policy targeting the region of Dersim as one of its first test cases, with disastrous consequences for the local population.[25] The Dersim ethnocide[22] is often confused with the Dersim Rebellion that took place during these events. Today, not much is left of Derim's distinctive culture and the majority of its people live in the diaspora.[22]
[edit]Kurds
According to Shaller and Zimmerer in the Journal of Genocide Research, the leadership of Young Turks planned to eliminate Kurdish identity by deporting Kurds from their ancestral land and displacing them in small groups.[26] In this era, the Kurds suffered from deportations and death marches and forced Turkification.[26] The Young Turks partially implemented these plans in WWI and 700,000 Kurds were forcibly removed where approximately 350,000 of these displaced Kurds perished.[26] These Kurds were forced by the young Turks to go on death march resembling the Armenian marches[26] which was part of a plan to eliminate Kurdish identity.[26] The movement has also been seen as the cause for the policy of "Turkification" which Turkey has attempted to impose on its ethnic minorities such as the Kurds until 1991. In an attempt to deny their existence, the Turkish government categorized Kurds as "Mountain Turks" until 1991.[27][28]
[edit]Nazi Germany and Pan-Turkism
In the 1940s, the Pan-Turkist also absorbed Nazi propaganda.[29][30] Nihal Atsız, a prominent ideologue, advocated Nazi doctrines while advocating a Hitler-style haircut and mustache. Alparslan Türkeş, a leading Pan-Turkist took a pro-Hitler position during the war[31] and established close connections with Nazi leaders in Germany.[32] Several pan-Turkic groups in Europe seemed to have maintained ties with Nazi Germany or its supporters at the start of the war, if not earlier.[33] The Turco-Tatars in Romania had cooperated with the Iron Guard, a Nazi inspired organization.[33] Although Turkish government archives for the period of WWII have not been released, the level of contact can be ascertained from accurately German archives.[33] During the early days of the War, publicly and officially, the government of Turkey maintained strict neutrality however there had been official and semi-official contacts.[33] In practice, however, there has been confidential semi-official contacts between both Germany and in Turkey, since 1941.[33]
There was also great sympathy for Germany in Turkey at the time.[33] A ten-year Turco-German 'Treaty of Friendship' was signed in Ankara on 18 January.[33] A series of official and semi-official meeting of German ambassador to Ankara, Franz von Papen, and several other German officials on one side and Turkish officials including General H.E. Erkilet, himself of Tatar origin and frequent contributor to pan-Turk journals took place in the second half of 1941 and early months of 1942.[33] Others included from the Turkish were General Ali Fuad Erdem, and Nuri Pasha, the brother of Enver Pasha, who is a romantic figure fore pan-Turkists.[33]
While Erkilet discussed military contingencies,[33] Nuri Pasha offered the Germans his plans for creating independent states which were to be allies but not satellites of Turkey.[33] These states were to be formed from the Turkic speaking population in Crimea, Azerbaijan, Central Asia, northwest Iran and northern Iraq.[33] Nuri Pasha himself offered to assist with propaganda activities to this effect. However, Turkey had also a fear for Turkic minorities of the USSR[33] and told von Papen that it could not join Germany until the USSR was crushed.[33] The Turkish government was possibly apprehensive of the USSR's might.[33] Thus various pressure failed to bring the Turkish government to join the war during the period.[33] At less official levels, emigrants from Turkic groups in the Soviet Union, played a crucial role in some of the negotiations and contacts of Turkey and Germany. Among these were pan-Turkish activists such as Zeki Velidi Togan, Mammed Amin Rasulzade, Mirza Bala, Ahmet CafarOglu, Sayid Shamil and Ayaz Ishaki.[33] Several Tatars, organized military units of Turkic speakers in Turco-Tatar and Caucasian regions from the prisoner of wars and these joined the war against the USSR, generally fighting as guerillas.[33] Many of them imbued with hopes of independence and several of these units aspired for a pan-Turkic union.[33] The units which were continuously reinforced numbered several hundred thousands of people of Turkic origin.[33] What is clear is that Turkey adopted a cautious approach at the government level,[33] however pan-Turkist groups were exasperated by the Turkish government's inaction and by what they manifestly regarded as the waste of a golden opportunity in the realization of the goals of pan-Turkism.[33]
[edit]Historiography
Pan-Turkism and nationalist historiography has been used to deny the identity of Armenians and Kurds. At the same time, various revisionist claims were made on ancient peoples of the region and beyond.
[edit]"Pan-Turkic" historiography
Various groups including Parthians, Scythians, Sumerians, Indians, Akkadians, Elamites, Anzani, Kassites, Carians, Protohittites, Hittites, Mittani, Hurrians and others have been claimed as of Turkic origin by nationalist writers.[34] Lynn Meskell notes:[35] "Pan-Turkists who later became the ideologists of the racist movements of the present times, were rather pleased with the idea of affiliating Sumerians and Hittites to Turkish. Another historical theory developed under government sponsorship in those days held that all great civilizations — Chinese, Indian, Muslim, even ancient Egyptian and Etruscan — were of Turkish origin.[22]

Grey Wolves
Activities to date
On a global scale, the Grey Wolves are suspected to have been responsible for numerous political assassinations and disappearances of Turkish and Kurdish human rights activists, and are known to have ties with the Turkish mafia.[14]
The Grey Wolves have also raised funds for Chechen guerrilla separatists, whom they consider their brothers.[15]
In 1996 the Grey Wolves were involved in an attack on a protest of Greek Cypriots against the occupation of Cyprus. One protester, Tasos Isaac, was beaten to death.[16]
In December 1996, the Grey Wolves attacked left-wing students and teachers at Istanbul University, under police sanction.[17]
In 2004, the Grey Wolves prevented the screening of Atom Egoyan's Ararat in Turkey, a film about the Armenian Genocide

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Yep, this looks like exactly the kind of myth I'd like to hit with some blasphemy.

[Cinjin]

I'm done with digging a long time ago. I've found all the treasure I need within the embrace of Turanism.
And we are growing, and you are dwindling.

who the fuck cares.

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... this last pic I set up and took myself.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Wiki godwinned you.

So do the lot of our enemies. However, they do not take in account that pan-turkism is much older than fascism and nazism.
It certainly matters little. We are not italians, nor germans.

and has been as equally unsuccessful in Eastern Europe

It would be unsuccessful, if it would apply to Eastern Europe. Besides, Eastern Europe is largely inhabited by the slav. We are aiming to only bring this ideology to our brethren in other Turkish populated areas.

What are you even doing here? Shouldn't you be crying rahowa (care to provide the translation for me?) in some dirty street somewhere?

I don't know what rahowa is.

Yep, this looks like exactly the kind of myth I'd like to hit with some blasphemy.

Hit it with whatever you want. We already have critics from all sides.

with the exception of the Republic of Azerbaijan"

Not only that, but we're taking root in other Turkish countries aswell. As a matter of fact, I think the other Turkish countries are advancing more in Turkist ideology than we, as we have a serious case of undesirables that are trying to lord over us. They certainly will be dealt with in good time.
And I do not need to cry out incomprehensible words. I am a member of a Turkist student association. We are at odds with the communist assholes over here, but the last time they tried to storm out HQ, they were severely bruised.
We're recruiting from every Turkic nation that is present within our campus.

[Rokcet Scientist]

pan-turkism is much older than fascism and nazism.

I think you missed for instance the ancient Egyptian and Roman fascism...

[KichigaiNeko]

pan-turkism is much older than fascism and nazism.

I think you missed for instance the ancient Egyptian and Roman fascism...

Our little Turkish princess does get rather one eyed about things....yes??

[thesummerqueen]

This is the most goddamned ridiculous conversation I've seen yet on this forum. Seriously.

Waaaaaaah. Turks are better. Someone get me a violin - I know the tunes of a few doleful songs from MY people that would go great with this sad, all-too-familiar theme.

You live on this fucking planet with the rest of us, Kilic. It would behoove all "races" to learn to get along, as it doesn't look like we're going to be making any advances in the space area too quickly, should we continue to fuck this planet up.

Guess what? My blood's special too, according to migratory genetics. But a quick perusal of genetics would make you realize that only a specialized scientist could tell the difference between you and I race-wise on a molecular level. The differences between humans lie almost entirely on a surface level.

[KichigaiNeko]

But a quick perusal of genetics would make you realize that only a specialized scientist could tell the difference between you and I race-wise on a molecular level.

Something I lament that the "Turks" will never be able to do...they were great...once.

[kılıç_mehmet]

I'm getting along with the different races. However, I'd rather have it that we live amongst our own, in our own lands, without any foreign interference in our matters. Is that really too much to ask?
It this such an evil thought?

[thesummerqueen]

It's an isolationist mindset, and not compatible with the growing inter-play of the rest of the nations on this planet, who are realizing that combining efforts might just be smarter than squabbling (not that we don't take 5 steps back some days...).

You play it off like it's not an evil thought, but to keep "interference" out you'd pretty much have to stop any dealings with any country. Do you really want to lose whatever resources you get from the outside?