Book of Acts: Pure Fantasy

[Godscreated]

God is active in my life, I know this without a doubt...

If you have any examples of this that aren't too personal to share, I would love to hear them.

I have before and others jump in and degrade my experiences so they are off limits from now on, sorry I would like to but what I know is real in my life is no longer available for others to ridicule. Not trying to hide or deny just tried of people not being able to have a sensible debate.

[Faith No More]

Well, I wouldn't ridicule you for it. I am just curious as to what constitutes evidence of god working in your life, because often times I see things in my life that I feel a religious person would interpret as god's influence. I, however, believe these things to be nothing but coincidental patterns perceived by my human brain.

[Godscreated]

It always strikes me as too easy to say AIDS would not be a problem for us if man would just abide by god's law. One man, one woman and no cheating (or eating bush meat) and you won't have to worry about getting aides. The same can be said of murder. If people would just keep the 10 commandment, there wouldn't be any. Of course that is essentially a tautology so it isn't clear what the point of saying it might be. If everyone would just follow my mom's rule (from when I was a child) and "play nice", there would be very few hurt feelings and boo boos in the playground. But oh no, kids will be kids and that is why so many hugs and band aids are required.

If only we were different than we are by always followed a short list of rules, the world would be other than we find it. Talk about your untestable hypotheses.

Your mom gave you that advice out of love, the Ten Commandments were given to us by God out of love. Kids will be kids and adults will be adults, if you and the other kids had obeyed mom there would have be no reason for the band aids and if man had obeyed the Ten Commandments God would not have had to sacrifice His Son (the band aid if you wish). But in both cases came the band aids and hugs.

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Well, I wouldn't ridicule you for it. I am just curious as to what constitutes evidence of god working in your life, because often times I see things in my life that I feel a religious person would interpret as god's influence. I, however, believe these things to be nothing but coincidental patterns perceived by my human brain.

I don't think you would, however others will. I'm curious as to what you see in your life that Christians would believe God was working in their life.

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Sexual contact is not the only way of contracting this terrible disease. I have already explained this to you. The morality or otherwise of sex between consenting adults of any gender - or indeed any number of participants - is only peripherally relevant to the subject of disease in general and HIV in particular; especially since condoms have a proven track record of protecting against STDs.

As for this god being outside of nature: fine, so it can be safely ignored as it exists outside our reality. On the other hand, if it is supposed to have any effect whatsoever on our reality, then that effect must be detectable and measurable by definition. This puts it squarely in the realm of science, which examines events that exist in our reality and dissects them to discover the mechanism behind them. However, you want to eat your cake and have it too by staking claim to both sides of the argument. That is not a rational position to take.

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Why is it that you guys have a hard time understanding something so simple. AIDS was first spread by sexual contact, no matter how it came to be in man if everyone had keep God's commandment of sex only between a man and his wife Aids would have soon died out.

First of all I'm not a plural; as far as I'm aware there is only me sitting here at this keyboard typing these replies to you. Unless you have information about my situation to which I am not privy, I would appreciate you keeping your condesencion to yourself. Thank you.

HIV/AIDS is a virus spread by exposure to infected human bodily fluids including blood and semen. Yes, sexual contact is one method by which it is spread but it's not the only one. You cannot say categorically that it was first spread via sexual contact as you simply cannot know this. Research has indicated that the virus migrated to humans from African simian species, specifically the white-collared monkey and chimpanzee. The disease endemic to those species is probably at least 32,000 years old (altogether now: Happy Birthday to you...) Given that humans have lived closely alongside such simians, not to mention hunting them, for a considerable percentage of that time, trans-species migration of diseases of any kind is sort of inevitable and it doesn't require them all to be rampant monkey-fuckers.

Once the virus had jumped across to our species, it makes little difference whether people go around bonking each other senseless or keep it in their pants until some bloke in a dress gives them permission to do it.

Condoms are not the issue here, the physical and mental health of people is the issue. You pointed out that children die of Aids but failed to point out why, it's the irresponsibility of people to not take precautions, so what good were condoms to those dead children.
I do not play both sides of the fence, it's those who chance their lives with sex outside of marriage. If everyone down through the ages had obeyed God's commandment not to have sex outside of marriage there would be no sexually transmitted diseases and no horrible deaths and there would be peace of mind.

Actually, I pointed out that children can be (and are) born pre-infected with the virus to women who themselves have contracted it. That is the 'why' for their dying that you failed to see me point out. What good would condoms have been to those children? Well, they would have prevented their being born into a life in which the best they could hope for is an untimely and horrible death but that wasn't even what I was talking about. Somehow I don't think it's worth even bothering to explain to someone who has stated, for all to see, that condoms and health are seperate issues.

God is outside of nature but He does interact with man, an example the commandment I've be quoting. It is true and for mans own good, for some reason I want mention people just ignore it and suffer on.

This is such pure and unadulderated bollocks it's giving me headache trying to think down to this level. If god interacts with humans then such interactions must be observable and measurable, or at the very least detectable; otherwise you have no rational foundation for making the statement at all.

Just because you refuse to recognize that God is working in our lives does not mean He's not.

And just because you keep making this claim doesn't mean it's true. It's up to you and your fellows to prove it.

Thanks for the birthday shout. I was referring to others also when I said you guys, sorry I did not make that clear. As for the AIDS thing I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. As for God working in my life I see what I know without any doubt, as for nonbelievers why should they be able to see as a matter of fact I do not think they care to see anything positive in a believers life, that's been made quite clear on this site by most but not all.

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Just because you refuse to recognize that God is working in our lives does not mean He's not.

Granted. But I don't think you're in any better position to know if god is working in your life when things go well or otherwise. It could be good genetics or luck when someone survives an illness or avoids contracting a disease. It doesn't have to be the will of some god who watches over each and every person's every act and thought, deciding what consequence to dish out in each case.

I believe I'm in the perfect position to see God working in my life, I'm looking for what He's doing and asking Him to work in and through my life.
God doesn't work that way IMO, He will walk through the hard times with us giving us the things we need to get through and at times He will take care of a problem for us no matter how big or small. God is active in my life, I know this without a doubt, I sorry others here can not understand, as I said I watch for what He does in my life and make I do believe that makes the difference.

In a way, perhaps. Certainly you're the only one who can decide what makes sense for you. But my point remains. You have no objective evidence, nothing that could persuade a reasonable person. Just your interpretation of what you've witnessed. On a par with, but not superior to the witness each of us bears to our own experience. I can't say you are wrong -for you- but neither can you falsify mine or anyone else's truth. Do you really think you're in any better position to interpret the truth of everyone's experience than they are themselves? Please don't bring the bible into this. Its relevancy is precisely what is in question so citing it would be rather circular.

For me it is objective, I'm the one who understands what's happening in my life and that some things must be from God because of the difference they make in my life, things that no human nor myself could give me or reveal to me. I'm actually not trying to persuade nonbelievers that God works in my life, I'm making a statement to the fact and if others choose to believe it fine, if not it's their loss as far as I'm concerned. Do not misunderstand, I hope that all would believe that God's at work in my life, I however am realistic and know that will not happen.

[Forsaken]

I have before and others jump in and degrade my experiences so they are off limits from now on, sorry I would like to but what I know is real in my life is no longer available for others to ridicule. Not trying to hide or deny just tried of people not being able to have a sensible debate.

Did you get one in your ass from your imaginary friend?

[KichigaiNeko]

....., I'm the one who understands what's happening in my life.

That statement alone is so totally subjective G-C that it negates any reasonable argument that can come after it

I'm making a statement to the fact and if others choose to believe it fine, if not it's their loss as far as I'm concerned.

More subjectivity

Do not misunderstand, I hope that all would believe that God's at work in my life, I however am realistic and know that will not happen.

More subjectivity... any wonder people will not debate you... Your reply is ALL ABOUT YOU! So self centred, subjective and so closed minded. Nothing to have a "sensible debate" or discussion about G-C... and yes your whinging and whining about it does get tedious

[yoshiisadinosaur]

Continuing the "Historical Documents! No, Really!" series, we now come to the Book of Acts.

One more time, it bears repeating, these were the acts of MERE MORTALS

OK, so the Christian has two choices:

1. Believe that such magic is possible for mortals and that angels do get personally involved in real life, in which case you are so loony that there's no point in having a rational conversation with you.

2. Admit that the Book of Acts is kind of fanciful and shouldn't be regarded as a historical document.

And before anyone whines about my "prejudice against the supernatural", all I'm doing is operating by the same rules we all do in every day life. ECREE. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Since you don't lend the same credence to the supernatural claims of other religions, you should understand why I don't let such credence to yours.

Hey guys! I just want to thank you first of all for being so respectful...I have run into a lot of "fire and brimstone preachers" from the atheist side of things and it's really nice to find some people that you disagree with, but respect. So thank you.

There's a quote by someone that goes like this, "seeing is believing." This makes sense. Why would anyone believe something so stupid as an idea that "praying" for someone will "heal" them. I mean, there must be some kind of scientific explanation for it right? Maybe some placebo effect thrown in there. Ya know, "Ohhh, I had a headache but now it's gone thank you so much for praying for me, GOD IS SO GOOD!"

Okay so I have seen crazy things that science doesn't seem to explain. Heck, I can't explain it either. All I know is that I have seen deaf people hear as a result of praying. I have seen blind people receive healing as a result of praying. I have seen a man who was a paraplegic for just over a year receive full healing and run in circles around the room. And this stuff can't be explained by the placebo effect either. In my life, there have been too many unexplainable things happen to not believe in "magic."

Maybe science will explain why these things can happen with enough faith. Sounds hokey I know but seeing is believing right?

Love ya guys!

[Darwinian]

Have you ever seen an amputee healed after praying?

[Minimalist]

More subjectivity... any wonder people will not debate you...

How can one debate the utterly delusional? He's a fruit cake - which is common among jesus freaks....speaking of which we seem to have exhibit "B" of that ilk right above.

Oh, boy. "Science" is under no obligation to explain why your fantasies can come true with "faith." The problem is yours to explain how faith can do jack shit.

It's called "burden of proof" and you seem to have no comprehension of it.

[yoshiisadinosaur]

Have you ever seen an amputee healed after praying?

Have you ever seen an amputee healed after praying?

Nope I haven't. I was thinking about writing a story from one of by best friend's girlfriend but it's really not mine to tell you know what I mean? I could possibly butcher it or get some facts wrong. For what it's worth I'll tell it to you but just know that this from my best friend's girlfriend.

She told me this a couple months ago over a Skype conversation with my best friend. She was raised in the church but hasn't been following God since she moved out (which was 3 years ago). She came from a very conservative background and didn't believe that God could do supernatural things. Anyways, she went to Mexico on a missions trip and ran into a group of YWAMers (missions organization) who were at the same place as them. Through a series of events a mother accidentally dropped her baby on the fire. The baby suffered burns all over its body. The YWAMers gathered together and prayed for it and she watched as the baby's burns disappeared. At this time she did not believe God could do this. The YWAMers continued to pray for other sick people in the area and my friend's girlfriend was describing to me how she saw a man's arm grow back...she said it was the weirdest thing and freaked her right out.

She's very distressed because she doesn't really believe in God. She's been raised her whole life in a Christian little box but now that she's moved out she has walked away from what she was raised as. But she has an internal dilemma which she was telling me about: she doesn't think that she believes in God but she believes in the supernatural because of the crazy things that she saw which have stuck with her.

This is the story that she told me. As far as I can see she has no reason to lie. She's not trying to prove anything. Yet this is from a third source so feel free to take it or leave it.

Love ya

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More subjectivity... any wonder people will not debate you...

How can one debate the utterly delusional? He's a fruit cake - which is common among jesus freaks....speaking of which we seem to have exhibit "B" of that ilk right above.

Oh, boy. "Science" is under no obligation to explain why your fantasies can come true with "faith." The problem is yours to explain how faith can do jack shit.

It's called "burden of proof" and you seem to have no comprehension of it.

Sorry man. Just calling it as I see it. I understand the dilemma you have and the lack of proof I have.

Love ya

[Godscreated]

....., I'm the one who understands what's happening in my life.

That statement alone is so totally subjective G-C that it negates any reasonable argument that can come after it

I'm making a statement to the fact and if others choose to believe it fine, if not it's their loss as far as I'm concerned.

More subjectivity

Do not misunderstand, I hope that all would believe that God's at work in my life, I however am realistic and know that will not happen.

More subjectivity... any wonder people will not debate you... Your reply is ALL ABOUT YOU! So self centred, subjective and so closed minded. Nothing to have a "sensible debate" or discussion about G-C... and yes your whinging and whining about it does get tedious

The thing seen here that is subjective is you being reasonable.